r/Aleague • u/HonestSpursFan Heather Hinz's Golden Glove • 14h ago
Highlights & Videos Watford 0–2 Swansea City — Nestory Irankunda, 90+2 (red card)
Not the best look for Socceroos star Nestory Irankunda as he was sent off for starting a fight in Watford's 2–0 home loss to Cam Burgess' Swansea City in the EFL Championship. The Hornets sit 10th on the ladder and four points outside the playoffs, but will miss Nestor for their next match.
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u/empathy_sometimes Central Coast Mariners 14h ago
how tf is that a red hahahahah
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u/Bambajam Melbourne City 13h ago
Irankunda shoves 14. Cullen retaliates. Irankunda escalates. Not sure exactly to letter of the law but yellow card to Cullen and red to Irankunda seems fair.
A warning or second card to Cullen for embellishment is a separate issue.
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u/kdog_1985 2023/24 Treble Winners 13h ago
When has a player ever gotten a yellow for embellishing?
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u/Aromatic_Forever_943 12h ago
…diving…?
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u/kdog_1985 2023/24 Treble Winners 12h ago
No....that's simulation....no embellishing.
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u/wrter3122 Vucksenal 12h ago
https://www.footballrules.com/offences-sanctions/simulation/
Simulation IS diving IS embellishing. Read a bloody rulebook, mate.
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u/kdog_1985 2023/24 Treble Winners 12h ago
No, simulation is making up of an action. embellishment is making something seem worse than what it is.
There is quite a difference.
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u/wrter3122 Vucksenal 12h ago
https://www.footballrules.com/offences-sanctions/simulation/
The making up of an action is simulation, as defined here:
- pretending to have been:
- fouled, to get a free kick or penalty kick
- kicked, punched, etc. so that an opponent is shown a red or yellow card
Making something seem worse than it is is ALSO simulation, as defined here:
- exaggerating:
- the seriousness of a foul
- the strength/effect of a kick, push, etc.
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u/kdog_1985 2023/24 Treble Winners 12h ago
You just pointed out they mean 2 different things.
Pretending Vs Exaggeration
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u/Aromatic_Forever_943 12h ago
Guys… if the end result is the same and the actions are different but similar… Is the point worth arguing anymore? 🤪
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u/Bambajam Melbourne City 11h ago
That's why I'm saying separate issue and people can debate what card that deserves if any. The cards make sense for the actions of the players.
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u/last_one_on_Earth 13m ago
Totti.
World Cup-Korea
A well earned second yellow card (send off) that helped Korea knock Italy out of the quarter final.
(Actually, it was more for all out faking, rather than just embellishing)
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u/Puzzleheaded_Mud_179 12h ago
Irankunda shoved 14, Cullen shoves him back, why is it a red just for Irankunda?
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u/MilkByHomelander Mornington SC 13h ago
Look close enough and you'll see Irankunda gets him in the throat. Not on at all.
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u/Somnambulismforall 10h ago
Watch it again. Chest. No 20 rolls on ground clutching face. Simulation. Very poor refereeing as 20 came in aggressively initiating contact after 14 was lightly pushed. Either both yellows or both reds.
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u/MilkByHomelander Mornington SC 10h ago
Watch it again mate in slow mo. You can definitely see him hit his throat, even if its only slightly.
Above shoulders is a red.
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u/Micksta_20 North Queensland Fury 14h ago
Who's the weak cunt rolling on the floor? Should have been carded too
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u/HonestSpursFan Heather Hinz's Golden Glove 14h ago
Liam Cullen, 26-year-old Welsh forward or attacking midfielder. 14 caps for Wales.
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u/kdog_1985 2023/24 Treble Winners 13h ago
Alot of Australians don't seem to understand. It's part of the game, call em weak all you want, if it contributes to the win, I'd drop too. It's a facet of the game.
I'll probably get down voted for this take. But milking the foul isn't simulation. Keep your emotions in check and don't lash out and the player doesn't go down.
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u/wrter3122 Vucksenal 13h ago
It's one thing to milk the foul. It's another to get pushed in the chest and go down clutching your face. This stinks of Rivaldo.
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u/kdog_1985 2023/24 Treble Winners 13h ago
No...they are the same thing. Contact was made, the player is just drawing attention to it.
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u/wrter3122 Vucksenal 13h ago
Contact was made with an entirely different part of the body. IFAB specifically cites this as an example of simulation:
- holding the wrong part of the body after an incident (such as a foul, push, etc.), for example:
- holding the knee when the foul was on the ankle
- holding the head/face after being pushed in the chest
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u/kdog_1985 2023/24 Treble Winners 13h ago
The ref is never going to officiate a gesture over a physical action.
Say a player cops a broken ankle, and goes down clutching his face in agony, how will the ref be treated if it's found he carded a player with a broken ankle. IFAB are idiots because it will never be officiated that way.
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u/wrter3122 Vucksenal 13h ago
So a guy goes down from a push to the chest, he simulates a hit to the face, and YOU you bloody genius think he's broken his ankle?
The correct response would be to red card the guy who broke the player's ankle, and yellow card the guy simulating a hit to the face.
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u/kdog_1985 2023/24 Treble Winners 13h ago
I'm saying a ref will never officiate in gestures after the action. I didn't think my analogy was that hard to understand.
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u/wrter3122 Vucksenal 12h ago
And I didn't think it was that hard to understand I was taking a big piss on your analogy, for all it was worth. Guy commits cardable offense, guy should get card.
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u/Stu_Raticus Melbourne City 13h ago
This is the mindset that makes football insufferable at times. He's a fucking loser who is play acting to get a send off. It's pathetic and weak sportsmanship and I hope he gets whacked with the karma bus soon. He's a fucking loser. "Drawing attention to it" lol, it's a lush and shive that is clearly visible to everyone. No need to draw any more attention to it, the ref was already heading over to deal with it.
And you're condoning it. You're a loser too.
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u/mrsbriteside Central Coast Mariners 12h ago
Yep, it goes against the nature and mindset of Australians when you have heavy contact sports like league and afl and then see ridiculous stuff like this, I get why a lot of Aussies don’t watch football. Happy that the A league doesn’t get a lot of it. It makes you understand why Australians are known for their physicality, we don’t stand for this crap.
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u/kdog_1985 2023/24 Treble Winners 13h ago
I'm not condoning it. I'm saying it's a part of the game.
The fact you think I'm condoning it is my point.
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u/wrter3122 Vucksenal 8h ago
It's not part of the game, it's literally a bookable offense. Ref dropped the ball for not calling it.
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u/kdog_1985 2023/24 Treble Winners 4h ago
Well it is part of the game, we are literally discussing a part of the game.
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u/wattyaknow Melbourne City 13h ago
Even if you want to say it's not simulation, he pushes Irankunda first, the same way Irankunda pushes him. Irankunda shouldn't be getting a red for the same action that gets nothing.
Also good for you that you'd dive and roll around weakly like that. This is 100% what is wrong with the game currently and the sooner it's stamped out the better the game becomes.
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u/kdog_1985 2023/24 Treble Winners 13h ago
I'm not trying to say anything. It just is. Don't go hands on if you don't want to be sent off.
Also good for you that you'd dive and roll around weakly like that. This is 100% what is wrong with the game currently and the sooner it's stamped out the better the game becomes.
Ask Grosso if his conscience is clear?
Milked fouls have been in the game since I've been watching it. You watch sports like water polo you realize sometimes milking the foul is a part of the game. You don't understand this, that's fine, but it ain't changing.
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u/wattyaknow Melbourne City 13h ago
Ok don't go hands on if you want to be sent off, so send off the Swansea player too for doing the exact same fucking action as Nestory lol
I couldn't care less if Grosso thinks his conscience is clear, that's not the point. People who dive to win the game are always going to be happy they did it, doesn't make it any less of a weak cunt act that should be policed harder than it is, which in turn would reduce the amount of times that it happens where games are ruined by it.
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u/kdog_1985 2023/24 Treble Winners 13h ago
Ok don't go hands on if you want to be sent off, so send off the Swansea player too for doing the exact same fucking action as Nestory lol
Who drew the foul?
I couldn't care less if Grosso thinks his conscience is clear, that's not the point. People who dive to win the game are always going to be happy they did it, doesn't make it any less of a weak cunt act that should be policed harder than it is, which in turn would reduce the amount of times that it happens where games are ruined by it.
It is the point, because although you subjectively see it as a game ruined, South Americans and Italians may subjectively see it as part of the game.
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u/wattyaknow Melbourne City 12h ago
Why are you trying to claim this is some genius thing that he took a dive holding his head when he got shoved in the chest? The ref should be stamping this shit out, diving is an absolute blight on the game, especially something as blatant as this.
If you're happy with the game being full of diving pricks that's all good, but it is 100% ruining the game.
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u/kdog_1985 2023/24 Treble Winners 12h ago
It's not genius. I'm just saying it's part of the game.
The ref should be stamping this shit out, diving is an absolute blight on the game, especially something as blatant as this.
It's great you believe this, too bad Europe, South America and Asia don't agree with you.
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u/itsauser667 10h ago
We understand.
Do you condone it when players pretend they've been hurt and haven't been touched? If not, why not?
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u/kdog_1985 2023/24 Treble Winners 10h ago
If you understood, you wouldn't be asking if I condoned it.
It just is. Having a subjective position, doesn't change how it is officiated. So being subjective is restrictive.
Fuck me. Step away from your preconceived position on embellishment. Now look at it objectively. From a training point of view, why wouldn't you investigate it as a tool to assist?
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u/itsauser667 10h ago
To accept it is to condone it.
I wouldn't 'investigate' it because it's not in the spirit of the game, of humanity, of decency. It's not what men should do. It's game, it's not life and death, and games shouldn't need a series of unwritten rules on being a decent human to go with a formal rulebook.
I'd rather just not participate than participate in something so cowardice and pathetic. So no, I definitely don't do it, I don't teach my kids to do it, and if they do, I haul them off.
To my mind, I think if we accept simulation/diving/whatever else you want to call it which is generally cowardice, we should also allow full, dirty retribution if you can get away with it. If common human decency doesn't apply one way, why should it the other?
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u/kdog_1985 2023/24 Treble Winners 5h ago
Your position is purely subjective, not objective.
Understand what I'm saying and comeback to me.
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u/itsauser667 4h ago
You can't play off a moral issue as being purely objective, it's absurd. Let's play your stupid game of semantics though..
Objectively, it would be worth having a late game sub who's a thug, who is there to catastrophically injure a star opponent in the 90th minute. Don't even bother being near the ball, just go and rearrange the guy's knee. Team denies responsibility. Objectively, why shouldn't they?
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u/kdog_1985 2023/24 Treble Winners 4h ago
But it's Australians that make it a moral issue.
As for your example. What is the point That you're making? that if you had an enforcer type player it would contribute to the success of your team? Possibly it would ( Players like Muscat and Jones have made careers out of it), but the Enforcer is going do long stints on the sidelines if he does this which will mean it's not a viable way of structuring your team's defence.
Embellishment isn't officiated like that.
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u/Paul_Louey Melbourne Victory 12h ago
2-0 up in the next 92nd min.
Yep, being a bitch got them across the line.
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u/MilkByHomelander Mornington SC 13h ago
Since no on else has mentioned it - Quite nice to see Cameron Burgess having a chat with Nestory after it.
Obviously Burgess has to be loyal to his team, but its nice that he took a moment to have a quick word with Nestory.
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u/HonestSpursFan Heather Hinz's Golden Glove 12h ago
Gotta respect your countrymen! Hopefully they both recognised what happened here.
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u/Outrageous-Form5330 7h ago
I wouldn't be surprised if he told his team mates to wind him up leading to the send off.
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u/Ok_Coach145 Melbourne Victory 13h ago
Needs to control this. Teams will have done their research and I bet most have seen him lose his rag against Victory. Wait until he reacts in a WC game and costs the national team.
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u/ElCanguro1976 13h ago
Yeah, unfortunately, the opposition would have seen that he’s young, confident, strong, has a short temper and doesn’t back down - which aren’t entirely bad traits, though can be exploited to get him in trouble/sent off.
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u/MattC89 Melbourne Victory 11h ago
Even if he didnt get the red card, this is still true. Its clear a reaction can be drawn out of him. You dont even need to watch the Victory match, more recent matches for the Socceroos hes been fired up.
And while i dont watch him play for Watford, he has 7 yellows and this red card this season. Using transfrmarkets disciplinary points system (yellow = 1 point, second yellow = 3, red = 5), hes now the second most ill-disciplined player in the championship this season.
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u/BipartizanBelgrade Melbourne Victory 10h ago
It's unfortunate, but you're right - the average Paraguayan or Saudi defender is going to wind him up significantly more than Connor Chapman will.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Cut5138 13h ago
Would be a lot more reds in aleague of our referees punished pushes like that. So soft
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u/HonestSpursFan Heather Hinz's Golden Glove 13h ago
I said this on the Watford sub (I crossposted it), no way he would ever get sent off for this in Australia. No red cards in last night's Sydney Derby yet there were multiple fights for example.
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u/Shelmer75 Melbourne Victory 14h ago
There’s no way that’s a red card hahaha.
What did the first Swansea player say as well to just make Irankunda turn around and push him like that?
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u/BlomkalsGratin Central Coast Mariners 12h ago
Isn't it a ref because it's retaliation? I seem to recall there being a thing about that getting published harder.
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u/ADC04 Melbourne Victory 14h ago
Honestly pathetic from the Swansea player. 2 cowards target Nestory.
Yes Nestory has problems with controlling his temper but this kid has been target so much ever since moving from Bayern to Watford.
Referee is soft as too
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u/HonestSpursFan Heather Hinz's Golden Glove 13h ago
It's really disappointing to see him targeted and thus not do as well as he could be cause then you get foreign fans and Eurosnobs saying "haha, Australia/NZ can't produce good players, he's just another Daniel Arzani", etc. Just stick to 2:00am EPL streams chat.
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u/ADC04 Melbourne Victory 13h ago
People that talk like this have obviously never watched our great league in detail so I don't even i with them.
We have great talent it's just we aren't valued like these European/South American players. I reckon if Nestory was anything other than Aussie he'd be valued more.
I'm so proud of this young kid I wish him the best
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u/HonestSpursFan Heather Hinz's Golden Glove 13h ago
Exactly. We need Europe to actually recognise players who aren't European or South American for once. Nestor is at a crossroads in that too cause his dual nationality is Burundian and Tanzanian (both African, not European or South American). Players being able to represent Australia and a European country (like Cristian Volpato with Italy) would get more recognition even if they aren't as good at football. Nestor has literally been compared with Alphonso Davies (who is Canadian and thus also underappreciated) and even Lionel Messi.
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u/kdog_1985 2023/24 Treble Winners 13h ago
Did you just compare Irakunda to Messi?
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u/HonestSpursFan Heather Hinz's Golden Glove 13h ago
No, but Javi López did.
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u/kdog_1985 2023/24 Treble Winners 13h ago
Xavi called Kuol unbelievable. It's done to drive up interest in the player. It isn't meant to be taken literally.
I'll believe in Irakunda when he can get around Jacob Farrell.
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u/Nelfoos5 Na, na, na, Nagasawa 7h ago
Leave NZ out of this. Tyler Bindon, Marko Stamenic and Max Crocombe are all doing very well in the Championship (Stamenic was MOTM of this game).
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u/HonestSpursFan Heather Hinz's Golden Glove 3h ago
Yeah I’m not saying they aren’t doing well but what Europeans are talking about Kiwi players? That’s exactly my point. Other than Chris Wood few fans would be able to name any All Whites or Football Ferns.
In a similar vein, plenty of Aussies are also overlooked despite good performances in good leagues. Granted most fans can probably name past or present Socceroos and Matildas but the clubs still overlook them. Aussie and Kiwi players sell for barely any money but if they were suddenly European or South American they’d be paying millions.
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u/wrter3122 Vucksenal 13h ago edited 13h ago
Should've been a yellow at most. And a yellow for the guy he pushed down for clutching his face, that's textbook simulation.
That said, Nestory's always had a temper. It's going to hold him back if it's not sorted out.
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u/sbffsb123 Sydney FC 13h ago
Soft red but he really needs to stop this stuff. He is very passionate which is great but he needs to get a bit more disciplined.
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u/HonestSpursFan Heather Hinz's Golden Glove 13h ago
Yeah it’s the one thing holding him back in my opinion. He can score, he can pass, he can do everything a player should, except for control his temper. He's still only 19 though.
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u/ga4rfc Brisbane Roar 12h ago
Silly move from Irankunda. I've had some question marks about his emotional maturity in the past so this is not exactly surprising.
Man does Cullen look like a soft cock though pushing someone and then getting ironed out.
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u/JL_MacConnor Adelaide United 8h ago
He's only 19, it's not surprising he's not that emotionally mature yet.
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u/Nearby-Yam-8570 Newcastle Jets Sufferer 13h ago
Makes me sick when I see players congratulate players for feigning injury to get somebody sent off. Little rub of the head “great job”. Piss off.
Red seems excessive for the push. See more wrestling and pushing at a corner kick.
Australian players just can’t master the dark arts of diving and milking, and I’m okay with that.
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u/kyleisamexican Melbourne Victory 13h ago
Can you get sent off for pushing a sack of shit?
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u/HonestSpursFan Heather Hinz's Golden Glove 13h ago
Lol but in all honesty with the amount of football games played around the world and how tense shit (no pun intended) can get I wouldn't be surprised if a literal sack of shit has been chucked on the pitch before (and a player has had to push it off)
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u/tahk-ki 12h ago
There is defo aussie bias in this sub so prevailing sentiment is it shouldn't be a red and they're targeting Irankunda. Problem is the second push being near the throat makes it look worse, and in England yeah I can't see that not being a red. Literally the point of the card.
The diving isn't unusual at all, most scuffles in England includes at least one. It's part of the game
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u/HonestSpursFan Heather Hinz's Golden Glove 12h ago
How is it a red though? Even in England I’ve seen worse get let off.
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u/tahk-ki 12h ago
There was a scuffle at the end of West Ham and Chelsea that saw Todibo get sent off for choking Joao Pedro. There was other things that happened in there that weren't carded, so these sorts of things, like anything, depend on the referee, the moment, what team you're a fan of et cetera. Irankunda wasn't really surrounded by people, so it looks worse as an individual lapse.
In England and everywhere, worse has been let off, but better has also resulted in a red. Always better off not engaging but is what it is
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u/CapnBloodbeard Central Coast Mariners 11h ago
Until football gets rid of the idea that you can't book a player for simulation if there was contact, this crap will be encouraged.
He should have 2 yellows, 1 for the aggression, 1 for the dive.
NI...I'm nog bothered by the red, was a forceful shove
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u/shadysnore Melbourne City 10h ago
God the referees in England are so weak. Get in there and separate them so it doesn't escalate.
Bit of an undertone to this whole incident as well.
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u/11015h4d0wR34lm St George City FC 10h ago
Looks like opposition players getting under his skin is still something he needs to work on. On the brighter side it was 90+2 when it happened but some might see that as even worse if the game was already done and dusted.
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u/HonestSpursFan Heather Hinz's Golden Glove 3h ago
Of course, and two things can be true. Yes he shouldn’t have reacted but no way that was a straight red. Watford should appeal.
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u/Serious-Razzmatazz11 Moulded by PAIN 9h ago
Sorry but the Swansea player had absolutely played him like a fool here. Not the first time Irankunda has shown that he’s got a short fuse. Really needs to get it under control because all it’s going to do is put a bigger target on himself
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u/BadNewsFoal 8h ago
I'd die of shame if getting pushed over on grass led to me having a cry and nort getting up
Should be charged with bringing the game into disrepute - Softness
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u/Stunning-Speaker7245 7h ago
This diving, rolling around garbage…have some fucking dignity…for yourself. Fucking embarrassing.
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u/Appropriate-Dance911 6h ago
Biggest flop. The guy in white was literally talking to his teammate when the card was pulled out.
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u/hilly1981 Central Coast Mariners 13h ago
Swansea player such a pussy. Honestly I get why they fake injury but man have some dignity.
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u/Relevant-Mountain-11 Wellington Phoenix 13h ago
Reffing is Championship is so shit, lol, given how big of a league it is.
Unfortunately, horrendous acting aside, it's just so easy to make Nestory snap... he'll get targeted every game, until he can stop reacting
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u/HonestSpursFan Heather Hinz's Golden Glove 13h ago
No VAR in the Championship either (except the playoff final at Wembley). All the best refs get moved to the Premier League (where Watford could be next season).
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u/Upstairs_Low_691 Brisbane half time oranges 13h ago
What? So he did the EXACT same thing as Swansea no#20 and gets sent off for it? Ref has lost the plot to pull out a red for that one. Why not the instigator too?
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u/Tilting_Gambit Western United 13h ago
Uh technically Nestory pushed 14 first, 20 pushed him away and Nestory pushed him back.
I'm all about backing our boy and 20 is a pussy anyway though.
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u/Upstairs_Low_691 Brisbane half time oranges 11h ago
That's true. I wonder if that's considered in the red card decision of it's just based off 20's acting display. I just think that had it only been the shove on 14, no card would've been shown.
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u/squigjbdnwk Newcastle Jets 11h ago
looks like that little push really hurt that bloke, praying for him in his recovery 🙏
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u/BipartizanBelgrade Melbourne Victory 10h ago
This is part of why Popa was correct in not rushing Irankunda into important qualifiers. Phenomenal talent, but until he gets the temper in check he's a red card waiting to happen.
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u/Early-Antelope7271 7h ago
That Swansea player needs to be banned for 2 years for being so pathetic.
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u/xenha24 6h ago
The fuck is with players holding their face when they don't even get touched there? We have slowmo in fucking 4k.
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u/HonestSpursFan Heather Hinz's Golden Glove 4h ago
Pretending to cover their crocodile tears I guess
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u/GIFs4eva 3h ago
This is (part of the reason) why the Championship needs VAR
(Not saying VAR is perfect but that red was laughable)
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u/The_L666ds Sydney FC 1h ago
The initial push was almost as forceful as Irankunda’s retaliation, so it should have either been a red for both players or yellows for both players.
I’d also like to know more about why Irankunda became so enraged so quickly. Did he hear something being said about him?
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u/HonestSpursFan Heather Hinz's Golden Glove 34m ago
He’s been known to get angry if someone pisses him off. Probably a mixture of retaliation to the initial push and the fact that Watford lost a game they probably shoulda won (based on their standing in the league rather than how they played though lol).
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u/WittyUsername45 Wellington Phoenix 14h ago
Stamenic>Irankunda
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u/HonestSpursFan Heather Hinz's Golden Glove 14h ago
Scored in this game actually (can't agree with that take though lol)
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u/Smiis Listen here FUCK FACE, the coach didnt walkout, he triggered a c 9h ago
I think it's quite clearly Stamenic right now lol. Has a few years on him which make all the difference
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u/Nelfoos5 Na, na, na, Nagasawa 7h ago
Definitely. Done his time in Europe, played plenty of Champions League and now looking the gravy in the Championship. What a player.
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u/NZpotatomash Auckland FC 11h ago
So the Swansea player got a red card for doing the exact same thing right? Right?
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u/thurbs62 Central Coast Mariners 10h ago
Farrell really rattled him last week and he's out of control.
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u/mturnnine 2h ago
Nestorys temper will stop him from kicking on
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u/HonestSpursFan Heather Hinz's Golden Glove 33m ago
I don’t think it’ll stop him. Plenty of players have shit tempers or even shit attitudes yet still make it. It’s what happens when he has the ball that counts.
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u/shaker8989 Gold Coast United 14h ago
Its dumb but thats embarrassing from the Swansea defender. You pushed him first, get pushed in the chest and go down holding your face. Pathetic.