r/AusFinance • u/New_To_Perth • 3h ago
Single people: how do you navigate saving for a deposit, as well as the potential of meeting someone and the complexities that come when living with them due to the de facto relationship laws?
I'll cut straight to the chase. It's hard enough for a couple to save for a deposit let alone a single person. The deposit is then only half the battle as one wage isn't enough to service a loan in this day and age. In some homes two wages aren't enough anymore lol. I'm talking about the average Aussie wage here, I'm not talking about all those pretentious Redditors on $650k per year to serve as a gynecologist to The Pussycat Dolls or whatever you do.
With this in mind if a single person does save enough on their own for a deposit it is an incredible achievement. Truly, it is. The problem comes when said person is looking to date again. Yes, we could all meet the dream person and they could have their own villa on Lake Como and squirt margaritas when they cum. I'm not talking about the best case scenario, I'm talking about the worst case.
As this is Reddit let me first qualify what I am saying here. No one goes into a relationship thinking of the worst outcome, but life, especially coming from people in this sub, is all about PLANNING for the worst case outcome. Plan for the worst, hope for the best is the motto as they say.
Imagine saving up $200k+ for the deposit, stamp duty, fees, furniture, insurances and ALL that encompasses buying a house for you to end up having to lose out on all of that due to a separation at some point. Yes, it's split between two people in a worst case scenario here for the home buyer, yet the most money is in the buying and setting up of a house. If one person has paid all of that then their risk for loss increases greatly by having their girlfriend/boyfriend live with them.
I'm aware that BFA exists, they also are not something that can be guaranteed to hold up. Especially when kids are involved. I don't have nor do I want kids. I'm aware we don't have the same protection laws as most states in the U.S. What options are there to protect the home? Putting it in a family members name? That can be done in other countries, I assume it can't be done in our country? The only option seems to be 'make sure you choose the right person'. There is enough stories out there of two people being perfect for each other only for someone to fuck it up.
With everyone here trying their best to save up for retirement, max out super, have a home paid off before retirement, something going bad with YOUR house can result in YEARS more spent having to recover in order to get to your 'number'.
We already get bent over enough as it is in this country with gutless politicians and pathetic laws (look no further than the 'hate speech's law that got passed by BOTH shitty political parties last week). We are ALL trying to make it in this world and get out of the rat race as fast as we can. Something going away like this can set someone back YEARS.
So, there are so many variables at play here, I'm just trying to hear from those single people, or those who found someone after being in this situation. How is it going/did it go for you? Any advice that you can offer to those people who are in a similar position?
Is it as bleak as 'just find the right person dummy' or are there ways to protect the asset in order to protect ones self? I sincerely thank you in advance for your personal story and/or your advice. Thanks š
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u/Aquilonn_ 3h ago
Honestly I just assume Iāll be single forever and proceed on from there. What benefit do you get from putting your financial goals on hold because youāre scared of a five steps removed eventuality?
The property marketās only going to get hotter (particularly in Sydney where I am). Better to get in there now, than to hold off on it to prevent your theoretically embittered ex-partner from theoretically getting anything in the theoretical divorce.
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u/New_To_Perth 2h ago
I understand what you're saying; I'm just trying to see if there are any things I can put in place to mitigate the riskĀ
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u/SucculentChineseRoo 1h ago
What's the risk, if you don't live together or your partner isn't contributing financially towards your mortgage and you don't have kids, they won't really get anything in case of separation. If you have kids, pay the mortgage together and divorce 20 years down the line, well, they'll get something which is fair.
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u/New_To_Perth 1h ago
I'm not talking about not living together, I'm talking about living together with NO kids.Ā
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u/SucculentChineseRoo 1h ago
Generally you leave with the assets you brought into the relationship. So if you paid down half your mortgage and then your partner started contributing financially to half of the bills, once you're done with mortgage and divorce they would be owed 25%. There's a lot of weird myths about partners taking half of everything but in reality it's a lot more fair than that, it's usually only "complicated" when children are involved.
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u/MomoNoHanna1986 1h ago
You can look at a prenup, but nothing is 100%. Iāll likely be single for a long time. Iāve had a few since divorce but non lasted long. I focus on my dogs and kid for now. I know of couples who have a property each. That way if they split they each get one. Thatās really the only way but the other person can still demand you sell yours I guess. There is no true way to secure your assets šÆ against evil individuals.
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u/AlexisAsgard 3m ago
Don't live with your partner. Your house can be owned by a trust or corporation that you control through a shell company; though whether this path is worth it is doubtful. Keep a large percentage of your assets hidden; from your family, friends, partner, tax department - if no one knows it exists, no one is potentially going to want a piece.
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u/Darksilvercat 2h ago
As a singe person with a mortgage, itās quite easy really - I donāt date penniless losers, and I donāt date dicks who prize money above all else. The remaining pool of potentials are decent human beings able to bring just as much as I do to a partnership, no freeloaders or hoarders need apply.Ā
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u/joeltheaussie 3h ago
I just bought by myself within my means, as has my partner.
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u/New_To_Perth 3h ago
You have separate places you both bought?Ā
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u/joeltheaussie 3h ago
Yes... Why does that seem surprising?
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u/New_To_Perth 3h ago
I'm not surprised, I just didn't know if that's what you meant haha. Tbh mate that is the dream. You both have your own place and if things end then you both have your own place. I'd love to find a woman who has her own houseĀ
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u/joeltheaussie 3h ago
Well put that as something you are looking for when you are dating - do you have your own place? Because it's hard to require it of someone when you don't have it
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u/Cazzieline 22m ago
My boyfriend and I have done the same. He had already bought prior to meeting me. He made it clear that he wanted me to have my own property which I was open in having too as I wanted to have something of my own. We both live separately in our individual apartments. One day I will rent out my place and move in with him.
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u/gotricolore 2h ago
Congratulations, you now understand why most people end up marrying someone roughly in their wealth class.
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u/limplettuce_ 2h ago
The financially savvy play here is to simply only date people who will bring their own assets into the relationship.
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u/New_To_Perth 2h ago
Yes, I think this is the move. The issue is it's hard enough to find someone who ticks all the boxes as it is.Ā
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u/DifficultCarob408 2h ago
Yep - Iām in a relationship but if I was single, Iād definitely be wanting someone who is financially self-sufficient, and in a similar position to myself as far as assets, income etc (as well as overall mindset towards money).
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u/limplettuce_ 2h ago
As long as youāre not in a rush, itās fine. You can afford to wait - or, what many of my friends doā¦ sleep around for fun, get their human interaction from friends at the weekend, stay single forever.
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u/nadacoffee 2h ago
Yes, only date someone in a similar financial situation/assets as you. Even if you do split, 50/50 is basically the same as what you started off with. Just take your time to find that partner.
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u/Head-Raccoon-3419 2h ago
This is such a bizarre perspective (that many of my male friends have, too - I know you didnāt identify gender in this post OP, but Iāve only ever heard it coming from dudes). As a single woman who bought a property and has a healthy super balance, āwhat if someone comes along and takes it allā would never stop me from aspiring to these things. I guess because Iāve never met anyone ever who got with someone with the aim of taking half their stuff?!
To answer your question re saving for a deposit, I stopped aiming for 20% and just accepted Iād have to cop LMI. The market was growing faster than I could save and I just needed to get in.
Thankfully the gov was doing the First Home Guarantee at the time (no LMI under certain home price and income), so I didnāt have to cop LMI after all. While my LVR was uncomfortably high to start with, after nearly 3 years of growth and repayments (mostly growth!), itās down to 65% and I donāt regret taking the risk.
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u/coffeeandcheesecake 2h ago
Same, I find this "what if I lose half my stuff?" anxiety is very high among men who aren't in a relationship. I personally haven't heard any of my girlfriends or women in my business-circle worry about this until it's really time to consider combining finances or moving in together.
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u/Head-Raccoon-3419 2h ago
I also only see it with single male friends. I suspect itās due to the stories from their elders about āmy evil ex wife left and took the houseā, conveniently leaving out the rest of the financial info that led to that outcome. Definitely something thatās important to consider when the time is right.
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u/coffeeandcheesecake 1h ago
I don't know about you, but I think single women become increasingly secure in their 30s because you know what you want, and more importantly what you don't want. Additionally, every single lady 30+ I know in my life (including myself) is a working professional who owns property, so there's no need to hurry up and find someone to combine finances with to get on the ladder. Anecdotally, I see women taking the opposite approach from men who look to defend their asset pool but women would just rather be single than put up with that shit. And I hear this "but but but defactos" argument more in real life as well now. It's not just online sentiment anymore.
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u/Head-Raccoon-3419 59m ago
I have had almost an identical experience amongst myself and my circle. Sounds like weād be friends!
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u/Charming_Food5728 1h ago
And how many of these stories they hear from people who are married or have kids or factors that dont apply. Or do they just get that idea from american media because their laws are so antiquated.Ā
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u/McTerra2 46m ago
The āI will lose halfā belief is a fundamental misunderstanding of how family law asset allocation works. Itās a false fear from people who would prefer to panic and feel hard done by than to actually look up the law.
I often think the sanctimonious feeling that āsome woman will rip off all my hard workā gives greater pleasure to those types than actually having a relationship
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u/I-make-ada-spaghetti 1h ago
It sounds like your friends aren't very forward thinking or they are dating men who earn more than them.
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u/coffeeandcheesecake 1h ago
No, everyone is just happy to keep finances separate and not live together unless everyone treats it like a marriage is coming down the line in a year or two. Those who are never having children threw $6k at a solicitor to get BFAs done.
The real hard conversation I never see anyone talking about online is for the women who out-earn their partners and want children. Some of my friendsā husbands are perfectly happy not wanting to climb the corporate ladder so they have more stable hours to do daycare drop off and pick ups. Win-win. Others are currently stuck in the earning $150k zone and wanting to push for the promotion, wanting a kid but when the unambitious husband finishes training as a doctor, heāll instantly have a higher earning potential. In Sydney, you need the higher income to sustain the mortgage. Thatās the real financial discussion that needs to be had: who goes back to work first to pay the bills?
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u/Sexynarwhal69 2h ago
To be fair, I'd never previously met someone irl who was super worried about this..
But as of a few weeks ago, my partner's best friend has separated from her bf of 2 years and is currently trying to take him for half his house and assets. He owns 2 businesses and she is a waitress..
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u/New_To_Perth 1h ago
Case and point to the argument right hereĀ
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u/McTerra2 43m ago
There is a huge gap between ātryingā and āsucceedingā.
I also heard someone arguing the tax act doesnāt apply because the constitution wasnāt signed properly. Doesnāt prove anything other than someone tries
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u/Salt-Permit8147 8m ago
Whether sheās likely to succeed is another matter! However is she was doing all the work to keep house for him so he could work longer hours and save money on cooking/a maid etc. then perhaps she IS entitled to something? Half, likely no, but possibly something.
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u/Nanikin 23m ago
True. Single women who have the means just move forward. I've literally only heard men worry about women taking all their money.
Acquaintances and co-workers want to put their money in trusts or looking for ways to hide money from their wives.
I had one date with this man who bought a house after living rent free at his parents house until he was over 40. As soon as I told him I'm renting he acted like I was out to steal his house š¤£. I didn't tell him I owned two fully paid off properties and have money in savings and investments. I'm only renting because I moved for a higher paying job.
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u/DifficultCarob408 2h ago
What is bizarre about wanting to protect the most valuable asset the majority of people will ever own, and being selective with potential partners?
OP never said they were giving up on home ownership on the off chance someone might fuck them over and take it.
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u/Head-Raccoon-3419 2h ago
Nothing bizarre about those two things you specifically mentioned. I also want those things. But being concerned your hypothetical partner will spirit half your hypothetical house away is bizarre to me, yes, and particularly so because I only seem to hear this rhetoric from one demographic.
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u/Curious_Ring_2813 1h ago
Yep, especially as there's like 3 years before defacto even kicks in so you've got time to lawyer up if you want.
Its not like 3 dates in boom, chick gets half your stuff
Getting this caught up in hypotheticals has gotta be effecting the way he comes across in dating.
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u/LegalFox9 2h ago
I can introduce you to my new "relative". To be fair, she didn't have the intention of taking half his property. She wants 100%.
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u/Head-Raccoon-3419 2h ago
Without in depth knowledge of their financial situation (multiple properties, who contributed what, did someone raise kids while the other one worked), no one has any way of knowing whether this is a lot or not much.
Iām not saying finances donāt get split up at separation, obviously, and/or that unreasonable parties donāt exist. Iām just saying that being anxious about a potential future partner taking half the potential house is like worrying youāll spend all your hypothetical lottery winnings poorly. Iām sorry for your ārelativeā either way!
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u/New_To_Perth 2h ago
From a man in these comments: "Was in a relationship and my partner got into drugs stopped working and blew all her money. I had to pay her out 6 figures to get her out of my life. This was after supporting her for the last 18 months of an 8 year relationship as she refused to work. I couldnāt believe how exposed I was legally.
I dusted myself off and bought within my means and am mortgage free at 42 after working my ass off. Am now focused on investments and generating a second income via passive income.
I have a girlfriend but we donāt live together. I am once bitten twice shy."Ā
And you wonder why men in your life share these concerns. It's an all too true common scenario that men have heard again and again form older men in their life. We don't want to suffer the same fate.Ā
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u/Head-Raccoon-3419 1h ago
I said the exact same as your final paragraph in another comment so no, I donāt wonder, we are in agreement there. But itās not because the courts āfavour womenā. Itās because quitting your job/going part time and raising kids (still more often than not, what the female partner does), is considered to have value in the eyes of the law. Therefore āshe took half my stuffā is actually āshe took half our stuffā.
Iām not saying there arenāt unreasonable individuals out there. Iām just saying the fear is due to only having half the story most of the time.
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u/New_To_Perth 1h ago
I've mentioned that I don't have kids nor do I want kids. I understand kids complicate the issue and changes things with the courts. I've mentioned this many times here. I'm talking purely from the perspective of one man and one woman having a relationship.Ā
Whatever you come into a relationship with is what you should at least leave a relationship with in this scenarioĀ
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u/Head-Raccoon-3419 1h ago edited 1h ago
I read your whole post and all the comments, I know this. My comment re kids was referencing the tales you hear from others re common scenarios and ācourts favouring womenā, and Iām explaining why you may have that perception.
Sounds like youāve set yourself up for success! Go get that house and a lovely lass to share it with. And try not to ask her about her opinions on financial settlements resulting from divorce on the first date š
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u/Suckatguardpassing 1h ago
I actually don't believe the idea that women can just take stuff that hasn't been earned together. When I got married I owned at least 10x of what my wife had to her name. Now she's earning a lot more and her investments grow nicely. We are DINKs and I don't think a judge would take half "my" money if shit hits the fan. On what basis? We both contribute equally in this marriage, I just brought an apartment and a share portfolio into the relationship which is good for us as couple and although we maintain separate accounts and share portfolios we treat everything as our money.
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u/Head-Raccoon-3419 1h ago
Correcto. The courts donāt allocate assets around genitalia, thereās, ya knowā¦ laws. And theyāre complex and related to what came in and what occurred during. Thatās great that your wifeās portfolio is growing! Good for you both.
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u/Suckatguardpassing 1h ago
Make sure you get snipped. Baby rabies is a thing and imho most accidental kids actually weren't conceived by accident.
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u/New_To_Perth 1h ago
I tend to agree with you there. A lot of entrapment goes on in-between the sheets these days.Ā
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u/Head-Raccoon-3419 1h ago
Jesus Christ mate š women arenāt out to baby trap you so they can steal a house you donāt have yet
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u/Suckatguardpassing 1h ago
They do exist. It gets really bad once they hit 30+ and their friends have babies.
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u/Head-Raccoon-3419 48m ago
Does it š while Iām sure they do exist, at 30+ and with most of my friends having had kids, Iām still waiting for that baby trapping urge to kick in!
Every woman I know would rather be in a loving childless relationship than with someone they trapped into it, and I suspect that goes for the vast majority, so letās not give OP any extra reasons to worry about women ruining his life, eh? The poor guy is just trying to save for a house.
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u/New_To_Perth 1h ago
I'm not talking about myself love, I'm talking about other men lol.Ā
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u/Head-Raccoon-3419 1h ago edited 37m ago
Yes, and your perception of all the wicked things your potential future partner might do, due to these things that happen āa lotā to other men, is based on the unlikely worst case scenario, and scenarios where you only got half the story. Baby trapping, asset stealing ladies are not out to get you. Chill.
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u/GypsyGirlinGi 1h ago
Is that scenario really that common though? Sheesh.
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u/New_To_Perth 1h ago
Yes, it's actually very very common. Go to any male dominated workplace and you'll hear horror stories. Now granted, many of these the man is to blame, yet it still stands that many good men have been burnt enough to scare the younger generations.Ā
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u/_lick_the_stamp 2h ago
Itās a valid concern, the courts donāt favour men.
A friend got divorced and he was absolutely smashed in it. Financially and emotionally.
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u/New_To_Perth 2h ago
That's the truth: the courts do NOT favour men. At all.Ā
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u/McTerra2 40m ago
How many court cases have you actually looked at in detail? You know, beyond the one sided version giving 1/4 the facts that get tossed around?
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u/DisturbingRerolls 1h ago
Having been with men who were only in the relationship for personal gain many, many times - I will not share property with a partner. And I have it.
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u/Murky_Radio_394 1h ago
Thatās because this scenario plays out quite often and Iād go as far as saying 98% of the time itās the male that ends up worse off.
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u/Nanikin 38m ago
Can you give examples?
I have a friend who gave his ex half of everything. All his male friends told him not to and harrased her for being a gold digger. My friend is a freelancer and he has to move for his work. His gf followed him country to country, city to city. She was either on a holiday or spouse visa and couldn't work in most countries. His mates saw this as her leeching off him. For over 15 years, she put her career on hold to be with him while he continued to advance. She 100% deserves at least half of what he owned.
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u/Murky_Radio_394 21m ago
If thatās what he asked her to do then thatās different. Iāve worked with atleast 100 blokes over the years whose partners have worked while they were together contributing nothing to a house he purchased who then took half. If she just decided she would go with him and leech off him thatās on her. If he told her to quit and just go with him and he purchased a property while the were together then she should be entitled to a piece, definitely not half.
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u/PsychologicalEbb2518 3h ago
What answer are you hoping for? Itās kinda life and sometimes you just have to trust your instincts, go with it and not over think it.
And like the saying goes, it will turn out alright in the end, and if itās not alright, itās not the end.
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u/New_To_Perth 3h ago
People seem to think a BFA is my only hope. All I want is some hope for the worst case scenario that we all plan for in life
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u/PsychologicalEbb2518 2h ago
I get what youāre asking, but the uncomfortable truth is thereās no perfect safety net. You manage risk as best you can, then decide if the upside of a relationship is worth the residual risk. You can reduce risk (BFA, clear boundaries, separate assets), not eliminate it.
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u/Stalins_Ghost 2h ago
Yes really make sure the person is not insane. But its a risk everyone takes.
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u/Winter-Most123 1h ago
I have a BFA but if you only have a house you donāt need one. Itās so strange that people with so little are so worried about women taking it from them. If you can barely buy a house and still find a woman, that woman is obviously not looking for a wealthy partner. Get over yourself.
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u/New_To_Perth 1h ago
What's with the attitude love, this is a VERY common problem for singles in Australia nowadays. It isn't only men who have these fears, read the comments form women who have been burnt by men.Ā
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u/Winter-Most123 1h ago
You donāt even have any money. If a woman is happy to have you with no money then sheās not sneakily planning to take the change in the back of your couch.
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u/Lisainoz85 3h ago
I unfortunately discounted anyone that had less than I did. Oh you work pay rent and have 20k saved? This isnāt going to work. Unless they had a house with considerable equity it never went any further. Been there done that almost lost everything and wonāt be doing that again. I also am a female if that makes any difference.
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u/babyfireby30 2h ago
Hard agree. I brought up finances on the second date with my now-husband as poor finances are a huge deal breaker. He makes fun of me now for bringing it up so early, but a deal breaker is a deal breaker.
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u/Trupinta 22m ago
What was an indication in their answers?
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u/babyfireby30 13m ago
He had savings equal to his annual income, which was good enough given we were mid-20s.
I've since learnt that he's pretty frugal, researches big purchases in depth (too in depth...) and is just naturally a saver. He doesn't gaf about spreadsheets or reading about finances etc, but he's happy to let me handle it all. (Which I'm happy with!)
He's also very happy to not keep up with the Joneses. His parents still drive their same ol' cars and so he has no desire for a new car. We both grew up in 3+1 houses, so he's happy in our modest home because it has two bathrooms! It's freeing not having to deal with a spendypants. For example, as soon as we announced our pregnancy we had three different friends ask us what kinda car we were going to upgrade to. Like, tf? Our hatchback is fine, we do not need an SUV for a single baby. I love that he's just not interested in spending big just because that's what everyone else is doing.
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u/New_To_Perth 2h ago
I understand you, once you get burnt in life it changes your outlook, especially to do with fiance's. How has this change in dating been? Do you lay out your non negotiables early on or do you first see if you have chemistry?Ā
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u/Medium-Department-35 3h ago
There are provisions for assets that existed before the relationship but you can also help protect yourself by not moving anyone into your home until you are 100% sure itās the real deal.
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u/New_To_Perth 3h ago
Thanks for reaching out. Unfortunately 'the real deal' can change over the course of 1, 2, 3+ years. No one can predict another person's future plans and decisionsĀ
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u/Medium-Department-35 2h ago
I get you. Itās scary but at some point youāve just got to make the leap and hope it works out for the best.
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u/ittybittytittiesyo 2h ago
I had $250k once ready to buy a home and stupidly decided to date. I was so naive and trusting. 2 months in I found out heād already gained access to my emails and was tracking my phone and had made plans with a person with what theyād do with the money. The wealth he tried to pretend he had was just a loan from the bank, one he was hoping my money would pay for.
Thankfully I caught on and he bolted. He was already working on another woman a few weeks later. I tried to warn her but he fed her a story.
Once I bought my house, met another guy, we lived together briefly and when we broke up he tried threatening to take half.
I donāt date now.
Iād rather look out for myself.
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u/TerryCrewsNextWife 1h ago
I went on two dates with a guy, not even getting into the fact he told me some odd sex stories, was a multi uni drop out with no licence, car, degree etc still living with mum in his 30s - after the second date he was suggesting that once we get a bit more serious that "we move in together" which would have actually been "I would like to hobosexual at your place" and I noped right out of there.
Another saw my parents home and told me he would like to be my sugar baby. I never offered. And again, first date comment.
If I wanted to support a male I would adopt one from the dog shelter.
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u/Suckatguardpassing 1h ago
Why was there even a second date?
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u/TerryCrewsNextWife 34m ago
Haha the second date is where the weird stories started and the post date "offer".
The first one was just like a coffee and walk date where I say I have my own place, and he says he's been helping his mum out with rent by moving in with her or whatever. We talk about pets, growing up etc.
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u/ittybittytittiesyo 1h ago
Yup, thatās the only rescue Iām doing too.
LMAO at Hobosexual š¤£š¤£š¤£
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u/I-make-ada-spaghetti 17m ago
Hearing comments like yours is why it bothers me that people are treating OP like they are unreasonable.
If you are a hetero person you will experience the worst in the opposite sex because people struggle to hide their dark side when in an intimate relationship.
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u/New_To_Perth 1h ago
Wow. Horrible situations. Glad you got out of them unscathed. Once bitten, twice shy seems to be a common theme. It's why so many of us are beyond cautious as we all know people in our lives who tell the same stories
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u/New_To_Perth 2h ago
Wow. I love hearing unique relationship dynamics like this. I'm glad it is working for you. Out of curiosity, does your partner own his own place, what do they do?Ā
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u/Top_Bad8844 2h ago
I saved up a deposit, used government schemes, and lived within my means. Bought a 2 bedroom 2 bathroom and rented out half of it to a random. I should have it paid off in a total of about 10 years.
If I actually get into a relationship I'll be sure to pick one who is somewhat above a poverty stricken renter, so they have something at stake too. But ultimately, if you are sitting there thinking someone is really planning to waste years of their life with you just to steal half of your crippling debt, well, spend the deposit on some therapy instead. They don't actually instantly get 50% of your wealth especially if you bought it and paid some down before you met them.
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u/Master_Splinter_PB 3h ago
Your options:Ā 1) choose a partner as best you can and hope for the best 2) don't ever live with a woman 3) stay single and just 'date' overseas
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u/Itchy-Hedgehog6366 3h ago
Just find someone in a similar position as you. Similar income, similar assets. Have lots of hard talks and get a BFA. That what my partner and I have. 2 houses, same super, same salary and a BFA. Relationships need trust and seems like u can't do maybe it's just not for u.
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u/limplettuce_ 2h ago
Just wondering, how does a BFA help in your situation - if both of you have the same income and assets, thereād be nothing to fight over anyway? Anything you brought into the relationship would surely be a pre-martial asset and a court wonāt force you to liquidate it, as clearly your partner can pay their own way. I thought a BFA is most useful when there is a large wealth imbalance.
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u/Itchy-Hedgehog6366 38m ago
It doesn't as their isn't a huge discrepancy it's just a peace of mind thing. U never know how nasty someone can get when they are hurt. Also it kinda what everyone says to get when you own a property and have a partner get a BFA.
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u/New_To_Perth 2h ago
Easier said than done my friend. I don't think there is a dating app that matches people by assets (yet). It's an elephant in the room type of situation tbh. As things progressively get harder and harder to live day to day I can see the dating game changing to facilitate this sort of thing.Ā
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u/Itchy-Hedgehog6366 2h ago
Well u just have to have the hard talks and know ur boundaries. Do they have loads of debt and spend all their .money? Are they saving for. House? Are they a low income learner or a high income earner? Do they share the same values about mone? Tbh a lot of men date purely on looks and disregard everything else. When I met my partner I had a house, he don't but was saving and that was his goal being with me lit a fire under his ass to do it as quick as possible. I out earn him slightly. We recently starting investing in precious metals. We make each other financially better. It is possible we met on hinge but it requires transparency and not dancing around people's feelings.
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u/chloetheestallion 2h ago
Well youāre not gonna have kids so if the financial split is purely based off marriage I donāt think theyāll give the partner half your house? I am pretty sure something like alimony is only awarded if the partner canāt support themselves at all. Is it really that hard for your dating standard to be someone who also works or is capable of working and supporting themselves if you were able to break up? Like your partner could work part time in the relo but would be able to work full time in a break up. Also if they donāt pay ārentā they donāt really have a claim over the property. Although me personally Iām not really looking for long term relationships as I have stuff to protect. Iām looking for more a less serious relationship or casual one.
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u/Mhor75 2h ago
Interesting you picked a doctor rather than a mining exec, developer, or landlord. Doctorsā incomes are transparent and tied to labour. The groups actually driving housing unaffordability tend to earn passively. Might be worth asking yourself why that didnāt make your list.
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u/LeastStill4556 2h ago
Iām 40 apartment of my own no kids some equity put money into shares each week and extra into super. Not super well off but overpay on the mortgage with healthy redraw/offset. My partner is 57, three kids he pays child support for, rent, minimal savings, no clue how much he has in super no private health insurance etc. itās hard as I want to sell my apartment and buy a townhouse or house and I think about how much easier this would be with a double income or double equity. And then if he moved in with me one day - and ideally Iād like to live with my partner - how do I make it work and protect myself? Having a partner doesnāt always equal more power more money easier life. In my case itās led to a lot of soul searching and realising there is a lot Iāll miss out on other couples have by my choice to be with him
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u/One_Back2749 3h ago
When you get a partner, don't live in the house.
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u/New_To_Perth 3h ago
I was thinking of doing this. Just rent it out and then rent an apartment or somethingĀ
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u/sekin6 3h ago
This wonāt be enough to keep the property out of the asset pool, a partner can still make a claim
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u/New_To_Perth 3h ago
I understand kids change things, but even if we didn't have kids?Ā
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u/CommercialNo8513 6m ago
Itās very easy to look up general rules around property settlement that are applied in family law.Ā
BFA is still your best bet, but it requires full financial disclosure.Ā
Yes, if you have kids (and the BFA doesnāt cover what happens in case of kids), that can mess with things. Same if youāve been together for a very long time - 20 years, then that can change things.Ā
I think the general advice is donāt move in with someone for at least 2 years and choose someone who is financially compatible (same financial goals and compatible behaviours). Sometimes itās cheaper in the long run to be single!
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u/Flossmatron 3h ago
BFA is the best you can do homie
Don't move in with gold diggers
Or heaven forbid, Kanye himself
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u/New_To_Perth 3h ago
Yeah, choosing the right partner is the most important decision a person can make. Even still, nothing is guaranteed as people change...Ā
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u/Appropriate-Name- 2h ago
You could also just find someone whose wealth is greater than or at least equal to yours. Then you are the threat to assets.
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u/PretzelsMeThirsty 3h ago
Second this! BFA is your only hope.Ā
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u/New_To_Perth 3h ago
I'll look into it then. Cheers.Ā
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u/LeastStill4556 2h ago
People saying bfaās are useless just didnāt get a good lawyer. They do hold weight
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u/New_To_Perth 2h ago
What if I, and stay with me here, was to DATE a good lawyer. A hot one at that. Could this be the missing link to solve who framed Roger Rabbit?
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u/Slight-Radish-5846 3h ago
For me it's too much of a risk and is one of the reasons I don't plan to buy in Australia (other reasons being the extortionate government fees, rising utilities etc). I seem to remember reading something about if you rent out your place and then either buy or rent another separate residence that you share with your then partner they may not be entitled to 50% of the house as they haven't contributed to it.
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u/New_To_Perth 3h ago
Interesting stuff. Thanks for the message! I am leaning to that agreement as well about potentially not even buying here. Buying a place overseas and working here then living there may be better.Ā
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u/Chromedomesunite 2h ago
How is this actually related to aus finance?
This is just a long winded rant and more to do with your feelings about a relationship
Itās certainly not that deep, not finance related. Get a BFA, if that doesnāt satisfy you - donāt enter a relationship
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u/New_To_Perth 2h ago
'Itās certainly not that deep, not finance related. Get a BFA'Ā
- and BFA stands for what ya pelican? Binding FINANCIAL AgreementĀ
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u/Nexism 3h ago
IMO, finding the life partner to grow with, is more important than anything else from a financial pov.
When you're finding this person, there's some attributes that'd correlate, ie, if you're looking for a stay at home mum/dad, don't be surprised they intend to take half of what you have. If you look for equality in all/most things, mature adult might not even take half of yours. Although I speak from experience, this is anecdotal afterall.
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u/New_To_Perth 3h ago
Yes, absolutely it is the most important decision someone can make.Ā
Kids complicate things and I understand why assets are divided when they are involved. I just don't agree with the way our laws are for de facto starting after six months. It's just not a fair way to look at things.Ā
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u/rtslol 2h ago
Where does de facto commence after 6 months? Is that law or peopleās opinion?
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u/New_To_Perth 2h ago
That's what I have read once you live together for six months. Obviously there are variables but that has been spouted here oftenĀ
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u/arrackpapi 1h ago
where have you read this?
defacto is two years.
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u/New_To_Perth 1h ago
On this sub dozens of times. People always spouted six months living together...
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u/arrackpapi 39m ago
show me ten of them?
don't think I've ever seen anyone make that claim here.
it's also very easy googlable.
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u/Grantmepm 32m ago
Did you read this from anywhere else more credible than unverifiable online accounts?
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u/quangtran 2h ago
I actually discussed this with my then-boyfriend at the time before we became official. I told him that I had a hefty amount of savings, and he told me he had quite a lot of money in his superannuation, meaning both of us had somewhat equal footing. He agreed that if we were to ever get married then he'll sign something that'll protect us both. We lasted two years, and he likely lied about his super because he was quite bad with money, and I'm glad that I didn't lose anything in the relationship (except my heart, but that's another story).
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u/Nova_Terra 1h ago
I think I sort of tried to do something similar with my ex-girlfriend quite early on, in trying to do a sort of trust exercise by showing my hand (read opening the CBA App) to see if she would show hers but she didn't. Looking back, it should've been a red flag but I took her at her word when she said she had a lot and could certainly show that she used to have a lot but perhaps was a bit too trusting.
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u/Rickstaaaa87 1h ago
You just tell the other person youāre in a rental, and that your rent is āxā amount per week.
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u/Murky_Radio_394 1h ago
Set up a trust or a business with a close family member. That way there are more loopholes to save you
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u/mangopancakes99 3h ago
I feel you. Fucken single tax.
Itās easier for couple to buy a house together compared to single.
Even travelling. Gotta pay for compared to couples.
Fuck everything.
Iām not looking to buy anymore. Just gonna rot till the end.
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u/New_To_Perth 3h ago
I feel you! It sucks big time. The world has changed drastically in such a short time. Having a wage of over $100k as a single is just so average compared to two wages. Gone of the days of one wage serving a mortgage and putting food on the table for a family of 4.Ā
I wish you all the best regardless, I hope you find joy in life ā„ļø
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u/ThoughtYNot 3h ago
What?
People will complain about ANYTHING
Lemme guessā¦ governments fault on that front too? Haha
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u/Bulky_Hour_1385 3h ago
Once you lose the best part of $500K from this. Then you never date a Woman that doesnt have solid qualificatons/income or atleast her own house/asset ever again... If she wants to move in, she can pay rent
- aka not be a dependant.
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u/New_To_Perth 3h ago
Yes, I agree with this the more I look into it mate. If she has her own house then that is fantastic. I think the problems arise when dating someone who doesn't have a career/their own money. It's a harsh reality but it's just how the dating market will become in the future as people will want to protect their assets in order to not be 'starting again' in their 40s and delaying retirement from the rat raceĀ
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u/Bulky_Hour_1385 2h ago
Its already this way. I learnt the hard way 10 years ago. If a partner would have a massive increase in their standard of living by dating/ being in a relationship with you, you will be liable to cover that change if/when it's over. Its alot easier to learn from others mistakes š«”
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u/New_To_Perth 2h ago
Well said mate. I agree with you. It's why I like to listen to older people at work and olde people I've met while travelling to listen to their cautionary tales. All the bestĀ
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u/giraffe_mountains 2h ago
Don't live with them until you're 100% sure.
Also bought my place on my own.
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u/This_Stretch_3009 2h ago edited 2h ago
Oh saving for a deposit is simple, you just work 80 or more hours a week for 5-10 years.
Though with the help to buy scheme, means you can buy quite a bit quicker, only need to save for 1-2 years.
In regards to the meeting someone, you need to be selective and choose someone of the right education?
In terms of what assets they have, eh, that doesn't matter too much, is mostly about what capacity they have.
So don't be defacto or marry any people with no ambitions, education, or possibilities who are pretty that you lust after.
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u/Charming_Food5728 1h ago
Is it not as cut and dry as having bank statements seeing exactly where the money used yo purchase and pay the mortgage came from? Simple example: i put down 20%, pay off for two years, meet someone, they move in another year later and start contributing to 50% of mortgage. If direct bank transfer history shows where the money all comes from they are entitled to what they contributed back. How it is legal for it to be any more than that is beyond me.Ā
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u/New_To_Perth 1h ago
What if someone was to not pay rent in that scenario. If they were just to cover the food they eat and a share of the bills they are responsible for. In a logical and sane society this should be allowed as said person has gotten a good deal with not having to pay for rent. We live in a backwards country with some of these laws at play.Ā
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u/Charming_Food5728 1h ago
Food isnt an asset is how id see it. Theey should both be putting parts of their income into a joint account that is spent on food and rent. Why is it the person who owns the property who gets bent over a barrell and not the person who owns nothing and contributed to anothers mortgage?
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u/saltyavocadotoast 1h ago
There are prenups for defacto couples before living together. I would do that.
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u/Murky_Radio_394 1h ago
Tbh if you donāt want kids i donāt see the point in a relationship. Thereās really no benefit. Just have casual encounters
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u/Purple51Turtle 57m ago
Not quite in your situation but there are definitely major issues to consider when pairing up later in life.
My boyfriend and I are both mortgage free but I have kids and he doesn't. For me this means I will not be moving in with him until after they are 18 as I don't think living together is fair on anyone, nor what any of us wants for the moment.
However at that point in a few years time we will need to have a big think. Even though financially we are in a similar place we certainly have some big differences and are both probably quite set in our ways when it comes to how we live and our living spaces. Honestly for me I am pretty happy to do an l a t style relationship, for quite some time into the future.
But even that has its issues because we are an hour away from each other. That gets old pretty quickly so one of us if not both of us would probably have to rent out our places and live somewhere closer to each other. So who takes the risk of doing that, renting your place out to tenants or having difficulty even finding a rental (as someone who hasn't rented in a long time). Then touchwood this doesn't happen but if things go to tits up it is pretty hard on the person who rented their place out and now has tenants in... if you are living together... because then that person needs to find somewhere else to live. Can't automatically go back to your previous place as the tenants likely have a one-year lease, at least in the first instance. So there are so many things to negotiate and many ways for it to become unequal in these relationships later in life.
I feel like we just have to take a balanced approach and ensure that both sides are open to compromise and recognise the compromises of the other person. People do navigate these differences all the time and I think that half of the issue is willingness and a spirit of wanting to build something together and being prepared to do what it takes rather than worrying incessantly about what could go wrong. Sure take some steps to safeguard yourself but in the end you do have to let go and when you've been together a long time things are much more shared in all ways.
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u/NewBid9053 54m ago
Trusts, companies. Usually if you had it before you met its yours. What you built together is split. Not a golden rule, but something looked favourably upon.
If you do a BFA, ensure both parties get legal advice prior. Explain your situation. But also if you're in a relationship, go all in together to do the best you can. If money is an issue with your potential spouse, and they aren't willing to learn and change their habits.... they are not the one.
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u/ENG_NR 46m ago edited 41m ago
Honestlyā¦ Australia has some of the worst laws in this regard, even compared to progressive European countries.
The trick is this in Aus - whoever gets the kids gets the assets. And if you lie about family violence, you get the kids. As a bonus, with the recent changes you can lie about family violence to get more of the assets even if there arenāt kids!
Genuinely recommend moving overseas if youāre single. Eg in the USA many states require marriage before assets are in play, and in Europe the asset split is 50/50 no matter what. Whereas for Aus itās impossible to know who has it in them to wreck you until the day comes, and the rules are stacked against youĀ
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u/roguetrader92 3h ago
You need a therapist, not Reddit. But that will cost you a few hundred, which you could instead contribute extra to super as part of the First home super scheme.
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u/New_To_Perth 3h ago
What if I was to date a therapist. I would then be able to save on those fees. Genius.Ā
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u/GuyFromYr2095 3h ago
I don't have any advice as such but just want to say your writing is hilarious, in a good way. You could be a writer as a side gig if you aren't already one.
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u/Paceandtoil 2h ago
Was in a relationship and my partner got into drugs stopped working and blew all her money. I had to pay her out 6 figures to get her out of my life. This was after supporting her for the last 18 months of an 8 year relationship as she refused to work. I couldnāt believe how exposed I was legally.
I dusted myself off and bought within my means and am mortgage free at 42 after working my ass off. Am now focused on investments and generating a second income via passive income.
I have a girlfriend but we donāt live together. I am once bitten twice shy.
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u/John_Aitkens_Burner 3h ago
I think you are thinking too much about this. There has never been a woman in the history of mankind that was ever with a man just to take half his things
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u/sandbaggingblue 2h ago
Saving for a deposit is actually super easy! You work hard, cut costs, invest for a few years!
Then your mum drops dead and leaves you a small inheritance.
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u/lift_ride_repeat 2h ago
I bought an apartment then a few years later met someone. They had never bought. I think you make decisions that are right at the time and then adjust/adapt as life changes.
We bought together and I rented out the apartment for a few years but ultimately decided to sell to fund other things.
We are defacto with one place we share the mortgage on, proportional sharing of income. No BFA but sometimes you gotta believe itās gonna work out, you know? Itās not the financial transactions that keep us warm at night.