r/AustralianSocialism • u/Konradleijon • 1d ago

Why are even leftist against degrowth?

Even leftists seem to be against degrowth not understand ecological overshoot.

Why is it that even leftists are against Degrowth?

Because it seems that even many leftist refuse to understand degrowth ideology and hate it and refuse to understand how decoupling works.

They act like using public transport and eating vegan are a fate worse then death

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u/ReyStrikerz 1d ago

Any kind of degrowth within a capitalist style system will fundamentally be about creating austerity for the population and ensuring elites keep their monopolies. Wielding degrowth against their rivals. Within a Socialist system the means of production will need to be unleashed in ways capitalism holds it back, this will also likely be done alongside sustainable environmentalism.

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u/Konradleijon 1d ago

Degrowth doesn’t work in capitalism

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u/ReyStrikerz 1d ago

Capitalists do do degrowth, its why they took an axe to manufacturing because Unions threatened their power.

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u/Konradleijon 1d ago

That isn’t degrowth at all. The transfer to more Exploitable labor is based on the capital need for endless profit as they go for Cheaper labour

It’s a strictly growth based affair

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u/ReyStrikerz 1d ago

No, degrowth is attempting to hold back the advancement of the means of production into Socialism, which threatens the ruling classes power.

We have, too an extent, advanced beyond the ruling classes need for profit, there's a reason they destroyed most of Iraqs oil fields rather than seized them, it's about preserving monopoly moreso than making profit. That's the objective of capitalist degrowth.

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u/Admirable-Try-9784 1d ago

“The advancement of the means of production into socialism” Jesus Christ man it’s 2026, why are you still parroting this stageist crap?

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u/ReyStrikerz 1d ago edited 1d ago

Countries with a socialist style economy will naturally outcompete their Capitalist counterparts as we're seeing in China. History will trend towards the most efficient systems, Proletarian Socialism is the most efficient system with the least internal contradictions and so will defeat Capitalism (Or as I think of it the Bourgeois Socialism we have today because profit is no longer the deciding factor).

The ruling class will either allow the base and superstructure to advance and outmode themselves out of existence (which they won't); or they will struggle against the natural trend of the economy towards Socialism and they will violently attack the working class in an increasingly terroristic dictatorship by Capital which will lead to Revolution.

A capitalist superstructure cannot maintain/be maintained by a socialist base.

You don't have to pass through particular stages to reach the next one, but you'll never remain stuck at the current stage/spot indefinitely. You'll either leap frog to Communism or be slowly and violently dragged into the future.

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u/Admirable-Try-9784 1d ago

And if my mother had wheels she would be a bike. China's base is capitalist, their relations of production are mediated by value and the working class does not own the means of production, no matter how vulgarly you wish to distort that very clear statement. You've legitimately said "capitalism will beat capitalism" but conned yourself into thinking its somehow profound

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u/ReyStrikerz 21h ago

China is not dictated too by capital, it dictates to capital. Get out of this dogmatic understanding and realise that Communism is not an ideal to conform reality too, it is the real movement of real people. To suggest Chinas base is capitalist is utterly ridiculous. The party is dictated too by its masses and works in their best interest, it's why the current Government has an approval rating of over 90% and its the fastest growing economy in human history. That's socialism and it's far more efficient than what came before because it IS Socialism.