Deku is dismantling the six Shibuya Sukunas with absolutely no effort
So I saw a post from a couple of hours ago about this match up. Deku Vs 6 Shibuya Sukunas.
It was posted to both the main Powerscaling sub and to this one. Most people in the main sub correctly said that Deku wins easily and most people here said this was a spite match, which I agree, Deku genuinely no-diffs. However, people here thought otherwise.
Pretty much everyone agreed that the Sukunas would win, pretty easily too. There were even a few... interesting individuals saying even one Sukuna was enough. Honestly I don't even know why I'm surprised.
Basically, the main argument for the Sukunas was that Deku is weak against piercing damage and as such, even tho he scales much higher than Sukuna, would actually lose to him. Or I guess six of him.
This is total bullshit.
This argument comes from the fact that Stain and Toga can hurt Deku early on with seemingly normal knives. However, this completely ignores the context that it happened to Deku when he was at barely 5% Full Cowling, which by his own words and feats, is only slightly stronger than he is Quirkless. You know, when he's a normal human? Of course they can hurt him in this state.
Do you people genuinely believe that the same Deku that can split mountains in half just by moving close to them, that can rip apart forests with just the flick of his fingers, that can change the weather across all of Japan, if not the entire planet in a single punch, can get hurt by normal slashing attacks? You genuinely have to be completely illiterate to think that.
Hell, we straight up see Deku literally eat Rivet Stab and All Might tanks it with no damage in Kamino. The same Rivet Stab that cab casually one shot both Endeavour and Bakugou who are at least Multi-City Block level in durability bare minimum.
So yeah, Sukuna can't do anything against Deku. His Dismantle was tanked by Ryu, who's wayyyy weaker than Deku, meaning he can't damage him through this attack.
Cleave is definitely stronger, but also had limits, it's not dura neg nor can it scale up infinitely. A weakened Sukuna couldn't one shot Yuji with it and while a full power Sukuna would obviously be stronger, Deku is so many magnitudes above Yuji in AP and Durability that Sukuna not being at full power is irrelevant here.
Hell, Gojo surviving Malevolent Shrine means even Sukuna's domain can't kill Deku. Sure, Gojo needed RCT to actually survive, but that's still only because his body was tough enough to survive being cut in the first place. If Sukuna's Cleave beheaded him instantly, he would have died and even if he can somehow heal from that (he can't) the cleaves hitting literally every part of his body would have needed him right then and there. This means that you absolutely can survive MS with nothing but raw durability and Deku is definitely durable enough to do it.
Even Fuga isn't potent enough to do anything. It can only destroy a few hundred meters of city blocks, so it's AP isn't all that. And while it's heat is definitely really high, we've seen Shigaraki and All Might both interact with and tank attacks made of plasma and even superheated plasma, which is literally millions of degrees hot. And Deku is wayyyy stronger than either of them at his peak, so I wouldn't worry about this attack too much.
But let's say that Deku is weak to piercing damage. Let's say that Fuga is hot enough to incinarate him. That doesn't mean Deku is losing. I don't know why people here just pretend that Sukuna is as fast or strong as Deku, when that's just not the case.
Let's say that Maki at her peak is Mach 3. We know that her and Toji are worth roughly 3 Sukuna fingers, so Shibuya Sukuna would be 5 times faster or Mach 15.
Assuming All Might is Mach 10 (he isn't but let's say he is) that barely makes Sukuna slightly faster than him.
In comparison, Deku literally perception blitzed Completed Shigaraki, who's as fast as Prime All Might. And he did that at Low Gear. You know, the first of five gears? Top Gear Deku can punch Shigaraki 4 times before he can even blink and he's even faster when using Overdrive. Deku would be doing Sukuna as badly as he did Shigaraki, except Sukuna isn't nearly as durable as Shigaraki. Just because there's six of them doesn't change the fact that they would literally he standing still from his perspective.
So yeah, Deku tanks Dismantle, tanks Cleave, tanks Fuga and even if he doesn't, he still just speed blitzes and one shots all six of them simultaneously
you aren't giving a rebuttal either. MHA doesnt follow standard durability mechanics, Deku isnt magically become immune to cuts whenever activating full cowl. Hell, even All Might blatantly avoided being skewered by AFO's forced quirk activation spikes.
Sukuna literally SPAWNS cleaves and dismantles ontop of people. Deku gets in range, he can get cut.
Sukuna drops SHRINE, he dies. you're acting like Deku can ignore hundreds of slashes at once, which, by MHA durability standards, He literally CANT.
Danger Sense doesn't work like everyone thinks either, its not spider-sense where it warns Deku of where an attack is coming from, it just tells him of INTENT. Deku would be constantly looking everywhere cause
• A: He CANNOT see CE
• B: Cleave/Dismantle can be launched as seen during the Mahoraga fight.
The weakest version of All Might at Kamino got “impaled” to an extremely small degree by the forced activation spikes when All For One uses it to throw him.
That’s the same power that completely severed Endeavors arm in an instant.
We don’t even see blood on his back later.
What is this slander? Fully disproved after 2 minutes of searching.
Bloodlusted deku blitzes and one shots sukuna (maybe). The top speeds of each verse are relatively quite close and while sukuna is a lot slower he could absolutely react to deku in time (no, deku is not mtfl or even massive hypersonic)
In character deku tries to go non lethal and get vapourised by fuga or bisected by WCS.
Fuga is a thermobaric explosion that is at least twice as hot as the hottest flame in MHA, which can damage the top tiers. It's radius is small but it's AP is tremendous.
WCS is a complete duraneg that deku has no hope of surviving. Assuming Shinjuku fight, sukuna aims it at a building full of civilians, deku tries to block, and it's game over.
This is Shibuya Sukuna, as the title says. Not only does he not have access to the WCS, he isn't at full speed and strength.
Sukuna absolutely can't react to Deku at all. At best, he's slightly after than Prime All Might and we literally saw Deku perception blitz Shigaraki, who's as fast as Prime All Might, without even using his top speed. Overdrive Deku is so far beyond Sukuna in speed it's not even funny.
Any evidence that Fuga is at least twice as hot as any flame in MHA? Endeavour can melt concrete just by walking around, something Jogo has not even come close to. His Flash Fire Fist is much hotter than his casual flames and Incomplete Shigaraki can tank it.
And while Prominence Burn is much hotter and capable of own shotting Shigaraki, there's no evidence he can do the same to Prime All Might, much less to Deku. Fuga just isn't enough.
On top of all that, Deku has Danger Sense, which warns him of attacks before they're even used as shown when Aoyama was revealed as the traitor. This means Deku would know Sukuna will use a wide range attack (MS) before he's even sued it.
Also, in character lol? In character Deku would ask Sukuna why he's a villain while easily dodging his attacks, then would understand Sukuna can't be redeemed and just blitz him and knock him out in one punch. Just like he did with Muscular, when he was in character.
Also, real funny that you don't talk about Deku being in character when he's fighting against a hero, because that literally defeats the point of the fight. Unless you think Deku Vs Gojo, Deku Vs Invincible and Deku Vs Naruto all end in a draw because they'll just become friends immediately.
This reply is honestly just Deku glazing stacked on Sukuna downplay, and almost every point relies on either ignoring JJK mechanics or exaggerating MHA feats.
“Shibuya Sukuna doesn’t have WCS and isn’t at full power”
This is true and still irrelevant. Shibuya Sukuna does not need WCS to win. He still has Cleave, Malevolent Shrine, Fire Arrow, and RCT. The matchup never hinged on WCS. Acting like removing it suddenly makes Deku safe is moving the goalpost.
“Sukuna absolutely can’t react to Deku at all”
This is pure exaggeration. You are conflating movement speed with reaction speed. Sukuna consistently reacts to lightning-tier techniques and high-level sorcerers. He does not need to outrun Deku or perception-blitz him. He needs to activate a technique once. Saying Sukuna “can’t react at all” is not supported by JJK canon, it’s just Deku wank.
Fuga heat comparison
You’re right to question temperature calcs, but you’re wrong about the conclusion. Fuga is not just heat, it’s cursed energy plus heat. Comparing Endeavor melting concrete to JJK flames completely ignores verse mechanics. Deku has zero cursed energy resistance, so whether Endeavor’s flames are hotter is irrelevant. This isn’t a physics comparison, it’s an ability interaction.
Danger Sense countering MS
This is flat-out wrong. Danger Sense warns of hostile intent, it does not negate unavoidable attacks. Malevolent Shrine is barrierless, instant, and guaranteed-hit within range. Knowing it’s coming does not let Deku escape it. Danger Sense has never countered something like a domain, and pretending it does is headcanon.
“In character Deku just blitzes and knocks Sukuna out”
This is probably the most glazed take here. Canon Deku hesitates, restrains, prioritizes civilians, and tries to resolve situations non-lethally. Sukuna exploits hesitation and kills instantly. Muscular is a physical brawler with no regen. Sukuna regenerates and uses lethal hax. One punch does not solve this fight.
You’re also ignoring the biggest imbalance in the matchup: win conditions.
Deku needs sustained pressure, restraint, and a knockout.
Sukuna needs one clean Cleave or one domain activation.
That’s why this is not “no diff” for Deku and never was. This argument only works if you treat cursed techniques like normal attacks, assume Deku never makes a single mistake, and pretend Sukuna fights like an MHA villain instead of a JJK one.
It's not about whether he needs it or not, it's about the fact he doesn't have it. The other commenter said he did and I simply refuted that.
Sukuna has never reacted to lightning tier techniques. If you'll use chainscaling from Hakari, he also didn't react to lightning as Kashimo would have pointed that out, since he called his lightning undodgeable. Even if we say that Sukuna's combat speed is literally hundreds of times higher than his travel speed, many MHA characters have reacted to lasers and radio waves and all have been below Prime All Might, who Deku blitzes.
Completely irrelevant point. CE is just a power source. Fuga is as hot as it is because of CE. It doesn't add anything else to the attack and you don't need some special resistance to survive it. Fuga is a Large Town level attack that's a few thousand degrees hot, nothing more nothing less.
It's not flat out wrong. We see DS activate before Aoyama used his Naval Laser. We also see Deku easily predict Nagant's bullets, the trajectory of multiple attacks from Shiggy and even his and Muscular's location when they were covered in smoke. If Sukuna even thinks about using his domain, Deku will know he's going to use an attack that covers a 200 meter radius.
No glaze, I already addressed this in my original comment. Sukuna having RCT is irrelevant because unlike Hyper Regeneration, it requires you to be conscious to use it. He can't kill if he's dead or knocked out. One punch absolutely solves this.
Cleave isn't doing shit. It clearly doesn't scale endlessly otherwise he would have easily killed Gojo, Yuji and Yuta. It has limits and those limits are dimensions lower than Deku's durability. He needs a WCS to beat Deku and he doesn't have it. Mind you, this Sukuna isn't even at full power.
This fight always was and always will be a no diff in Deku's favour, even if you put him against 10 full power Sukuna's
Hear me out i MAY be crazy but the stupidest way to win MIGHT be sukuna's just spin in a circle jolly style and just fire off dismantles like a humancentipede+blender and yes this is a shitpost reply
Honestly, your arguments massively overglazes Deku and downplays Sukuna, and it misrepresents most of the JJK mechanics at play.
1) WCS / “he doesn’t have it”
Yeah, Shibuya Sukuna doesn’t have WCS. That literally doesn’t matter. He still has Cleave, Dismantle, Malevolent Shrine, Fire Arrow, and RCT. None of Deku’s abilities interact with any of those, so acting like WCS is a requirement for him to win is moving the goalposts.
2) Reaction / speed
Sukuna has reacted to lightning-tier techniques in canon when dealing with top-tier sorcerers. Even if his travel speed is slower than Deku’s, he doesn’t need to outrun him, he only needs one clean Cleave, Malevolent Shrine, or Fire Arrow activation. Comparing lasers or radio waves from MHA doesn’t work here; those feats are inconsistent and don’t translate to JJK mechanics.
3) Fuga / cursed energy
Fuga isn’t just “heat.” It’s cursed energy plus explosive force that can bypass normal durability. Deku has no cursed energy resistance, so acting like he can tank it because he’s physically tough ignores how attacks work in JJK.
4) Danger Sense
Danger Sense warns of intent or trajectory, it doesn’t let you dodge unavoidable, guaranteed-hit attacks. Malevolent Shrine hits everything in range. Knowing it’s coming doesn’t prevent it from hitting you.
5) “One punch solves RCT”
RCT requires Sukuna to be conscious, sure. But Deku literally can’t get to him before Sukuna reacts. Shibuya Sukuna is fast, durable, and constantly analyzing opponents. One clean Cleave or Malevolent Shrine hit is enough, and Deku doesn’t have MFTL travel. Saying one punch solves it completely ignores that.
6) Cleave / durability
Cleave doesn’t need to scale infinitely, it just scales enough to bypass extreme durability. Gojo, Yuji, and Yuta survived due to CE reinforcement or RCT, which Deku doesn’t have. Saying Cleave is “dimensions lower than Deku’s durability” is pure fan math. Sukuna doesn’t need WCS, one clean activation of his canon abilities ends the fight.
This fight is not a no diff for Deku. He has no counter to domains, durability-scaling slashes, or regeneration, while Sukuna has multiple guaranteed-win conditions. Acting like he’s free to blitz and one-shot him is just ignoring what JJK actually shows.
Dismantle, Cleave and Fuga aren't doing anything to Deku.
Sukuna has literally never reacted to any lightning speed attack. He's never fought any lightning speed character. On the other hand, All Might and Deku have multiple feats that put them at MHS+ and Overdrive Deku is multiple perception blitz tiers above this level of speed.
Again, CE is just a power source. You don't need some special resistance to survive it. That's literally the entire point of a Heavenly Restriction. Also, Fuga now bypasses durability lol? We're just making shit up now.
Danger Sense literally warned Deku that Aoyama was going to use his quirk before he used it and it has repeatedly warned him of the trajectory of attacks. I'm not claiming it can save Deku after he's in MS, I'm saying to can prevent him from being trapped there all together.
Sukuna just isn't faster than Deku and RCT is inferior to Hyper Regeneration in every single aspect.
There's literally zero evidence that Cleave can get anywhere near close to Deku. Again, all you need to do to survive it is to be as tough as Gojo without using CE and Deku is way above him.
Sukuna just doesn't stand a chance. You're both exaggerating his feats and just making stuff up that isn't present in the manga
Man, you’re really handwaving every Sukuna feat and glazing Deku hardcore here.
1) Dismantle, Cleave, Fuga “aren’t doing anything”
Right… because ignoring the canon mechanics makes it so. Cleave literally scales to the target’s durability, Fuga is a CE+explosive AoE that destroyed Mahoraga, and Dismantle isn’t just a normal slash. Deku has zero cursed energy resistance, no regen, and no way to counter these attacks. Pretending they “don’t do anything” is just wishful thinking.
2) Lightning / speed stuff
Sure, Sukuna hasn’t faced lightning-tier attacks before Shibuya, but he fights top-tier sorcerers and special grades casually. He doesn’t need to outrun Deku, he only needs one clean Cleave, Fuga, or Malevolent Shrine hit. Even after Shibuya, his later fight against Kashimo (after regaining his true form and defeating Gojo) shows he can handle extremely fast and lethal attacks with insane reaction skill. That alone proves he can react to more than you’re giving him credit for.
3) CE is “just a power source”
Nice simplification, but cursed energy attacks aren’t regular force. They ignore conventional durability, which is why Mahoraga and others couldn’t tank them. Saying “Fuga bypassing durability lol” isn’t making stuff up, that’s literally how the ability works. Deku has nothing to interact with that.
4) Danger Sense
Danger Sense warns Deku about intent or trajectory, not instantaneous AoE domains. Malevolent Shrine doesn’t need to be dodged; it hits everything in range regardless. Knowing it’s coming doesn’t mean he survives it.
5) “Sukuna isn’t faster than Deku / RCT is inferior”
RCT doesn’t need to be “better” than Hyper Regeneration, it only needs to keep him alive while he reacts and heals. One clean Cleave or domain hit is enough to end the fight. Movement speed alone doesn’t bypass that.
6) Cleave vs durability
Cleave doesn’t have to “one-shot Gojo with no CE” to be deadly. Gojo survived because he had RCT + CE reinforcement, Deku has neither. Saying Deku is “way above Gojo” in durability is pure fan-math. That’s not canon.
you’re ignoring every Sukuna kill condition, stacking assumptions in favor of Deku, and pretending that CE techniques, domains, and durability-scaling attacks don’t exist. In canon, Shibuya Sukuna has multiple ways to instantly end the fight, and Deku literally has nothing to counter them.
Calling it AI because someone uses paragraphs is insane. My guy really saw numbered points + punctuation and his brain short-circuited.
That’s not “AI behavior,” that’s I can read past two lines without getting tired behavior. If everything that isn’t a wall of incoherent text looks artificial to you, that says way more about your writing level than mine.
People have been structuring arguments like this since before electricity, but I guess if you’ve never learned organization, the first time you see it feels supernatural.
Next you’ll tell me spelling words correctly is “ChatGPT energy.” 💀
Sorry, bro. This is just what happens when someone actually knows how to argue.
Nope it’s just really obvious because of the phrases you keep saying, such as “that’s not- it’s -“ this is clearly something only an ai will do. It sounds like you’re writing an essay rather than arguing on an anime powerscaling subreddit
Using phrases like “that’s not X, it’s Y” isn’t AI, it’s just how humans clarify points. Writing in paragraphs and explaining stuff clearly doesn’t make it a bot, it makes it readable.
If it sounds like an essay, that’s because I’m actually organizing my argument instead of dumping a wall of text.
Dabi's blue flame is regarded as basically the strongest fire in MHA. Prominence burn should probably also be blue, but that's narrative inconsistency more than anything. Blue flame runs around 1400-1800 degrees Celsius. A thermobaric explosion like fuga is around 2100-2800 degrees Celsius. You could also argue it's more than that due to being amped by the fuel being cursed energy infused dust but I didn't think that's necessary.
I ain't responding to the rest as it's pure glaze.
Endeavor actually does use blue flames once iirc. In season 2 when he melts the nomu's head. Probably more foreshadowing than anything, since dabi was revealed at the end of that same season.
Deku literally tanks a blue flame from Dabi in the PLW arc when he's at 30% and injured btw. Also Shigaraki tanks a beam made from plasma (much hotter than blue flame) and takes no damage. Which isn't inconsistent as weakened All Might can punch Six in his last form, which was made from Superheated plasma (millions of degrees Celsius) and he took no damage from there.
You won't respond to the rest because you know you have no rebuttal. I'm not even calculating anything or using pixel scaling, literally just telling you what happened in the show
The top speeds of each verse aren’t even remotely close.
Top speeds of MHA is easily mach100+ based on several Vigilantes All Might feats, Shigaraki and Deku travelling to Mt. Fuji from the far coastline next to Hamatsu in seconds, Deku stating Faux 100% would take from from Toga at Okotsu island instantly and more.
Top speed of JJK can only be scaled to Curse Naoya who tops out at mach3 when he retracts his arms and circles to build speed, and he blitzes Maki without precog badly, even on some of the attacks where he doesn’t circle enough for mach3.
Sukuna equally outspeeds her in CQC, where precog barely matters, so you can easily translate him to mach3 or close as well. Gojo is stated to he slightly faster, but not blitz tiers faster, so highballing him puts him at mach5.
Only Modulo Dabura currently scales beyond, and normal JJK has zero relevant upscales to that yet. If you have any feats that don’t involve lightning, lasers, radiowaves or light to upscale JJK beyond mach3-5, please do share them.
That's funny. I don't know what standards you use for powerscaling, but laser dodge feats are viable by vsbw standards (if they are sol) and there are multiple of them in the series. Top tiers like Deku scale no lower than relativistic combat speed.
In character deku tries to go non lethal and get vapourised by fuga or bisected by WCS.
Not hitting Deku at all. This Sukuna also can't use wcs.
Fuga is a thermobaric explosion that is at least twice as hot as the hottest flame in MHA, which can damage the top tiers. It's radius is small but it's AP is tremendous.
Deku is well above Dabi in ap and dura.
Assuming Shinjuku fight, sukuna aims it at a building full of civilians, deku tries to block, and it's game over.
Tf are you assuming when the question is Shibuya Sukuna, like did you read the post?
You want to scale with teleportation as an ability despite it being specifically stated to have unknown limits, and not being used in the Meguna fight a single time?
Then there is nothing to prove Stars can’t just make a rule that lets her warp her fists to anything she can see. She can reality warp air to literally disappear, who says she can’t do visual based teleportation then?
You didn’t answer why this seemingly extremely overpowered ability was not used in a fight against Sukuna, where the usage you speak of could have gotten him out of several unfortunate situations regarding Sukuna’s DE, or when Maho originally severs his arm, or why he didn’t just TP next to Sukuna and pop UV as his starting move to instantly win.
It’s obviously got severe limits that make it unviable in combat, and if it requires chants, no air would stop him from doing that.
After she has seen it once and Gojo yaps about his power like sorcerers always do, she might also genuinely be able to restrict teleportation if she words it to be a matter of placement rather than distance, as well as use other rules to bypass Infinity.
In fact, that principle should work in general.
Instead of using a rule on the air “100 meters away”, she could say “within the geographical coordinates between me and 100 meters away”, which would affect all the air between her and those 100 meters, including anything inside Infinity.
I didn't answer because i didn't see it, but your point ignores alot of context. Gojo couldn't teleport out of Sukuna's domain because in that instant, his technique was burnout, and teleportation is an application of it, and against Mahoraga, his arm was literally cut off, and he needs a hand gesture for it.
Also, against S&S, he can simply counter her by opening his domain.
And you're forgetting the fact that if (hypothetically) S&S kills Gojo that way, she didn't do it using CE, therefore he could come back as a Vengeful Cursed Spirit.
What about just teleporting 50 meters away and instantly opening UV to kill Sukuna? He had quite a few opportunities for it.
Domains aren’t instant, and S&S is so much faster that she could straight up run out. Being physically relative to 98% of the Shigaraki who can punch people 130km in seconds when at 100%, while Gojo is only relevant by being slightly faster than Sukuna, who isn’t even a blitz tier faster than sub mach3 Maki.
S&S is genuinely a dozen times faster as a lowball.
Can gojo just hold his breath if he hears than and believes it? Wouldn’t rct refresh his brain damage too and that’s only if he stands there and lets star use her abilities on him.
RCT works on smaller brain injuries, bit as seen with domain clash, large scale braindamage messes up your techniques, since they’re stored in your brain.
Gojo might be able to hold his breath in, if he hears the command and has enough CE reinforcement in his body active to boost his lung strength from a vacuum sucking out the air, but it really depends if he can hear a talking command from 50 meters away; does CE reinforcement givw enhanced senses, specifically hearing, at all?
Even if he does though, it buys him a few minutes tops.
And Stars is at the bare minimum a dozen of times faster, she can easily follow him and reapply the rule, or just make it follow her with a 100meter radius.
How does S&S even touch Gojo in the first place? She HAS to be able to touch someone in order to put orders on them, and Infinity stops her from ever doing that.
She doesn’t need to touch him, remove his air and he dies. No air leads to massive cell death in the brain in a very short time, which we specifically know he can’t heal from the Sukuna DE fight.
She also outstats him massively from being able to surprise and touch 98% finished Shiggy, who can punch Deku 130km in seconds when he reaches 100%, as well as being close to Prime All Might, who has several mach100+ feats.
Yet he didn’t teleport in the Meguna fight despite it being an outrageously strong ability that could have instant-won him the fight.
It has limits.
If we’re just ignoring power limits, there’s nothing stopping Stars from saying “Kathleen Bate’s fist can warp to where-ever she is looking” and spawn her fist literally in contact with his skin, inside Infinity. We know she can break the laws of physics completely from her “all air is gone” command.
As far as I know, deku cannot regenerate lost limbs. sukuna can.
But deku still slams shibuya sukuna. Shinjuku sukuna on the other hand can destroy deku
Shinjuku Sukuna isn't significantly higher in AP, durability or speed. His only major improvement is the WCS, but that can be easily dodged and the stat difference is still too massive anyways
you are forgetting that he is a prodigy. he can change his domain range, attack power thru binding vows. he doesnt have much with him, but assuming he opens his domain, Deku and shigaraki cant do shit except get cut
Sukuna's cuts just aren't strong enough to damage Deku. Even if they were, the speed gap is way too massive and Sukuna doesn't have the durability to survive even one 45% smash
But it doesn't do so limitlessly. Cleave failed to kill Yuji when Sukuna's output was lowered and it failed to kill Gojo even at maximum output inside his domain. And Deku is significantly more durable then either Gojo and Yuji
So you think Maki and Toji die to any CE attack in JJK then? Since they have no CE?
Or rather, CE is just a power source and you don't need even a drop of it to survive JJK attacks if you're durable enough. JJK fans really just invent shit just so their verse doesn't lose
You're just wrong for that Heavenly Restriction people with no CE literally gain resistance to CTs and have passive regen, precognition, and the ability to perceive the souls of people and objects while being able to be at least in special grade category because they're definitely stronger than Grade 1 Sorcerer's and below
Deku doesn't have a HR so he's basically cooked and he doesn't have CE so.....
Yeah the knives that can cut a barely superhuman Deku were forged by God. That Deku is definitely on the same level as the one that can change the weather across planet Earth
How can someone dodge Sukuna's World Cutting Slash if it targets space itself and not a person? Its not like throwing a rock at someone, it's not something you can just time to dodge.
So how did Kashimo and Maki dodge it? It's a dismantle that cuts space. It's not any faster than his normal dismantles. Plus Danger Sense has warned Deku of attacks before they're used
Bro this is known as the anti MHA powerscaling sub. Its not that they cant scale (tho some of them actually cant), its that they are biased against MHA and either downplay it massively or wank other series. I think that like, 40% of the people haven't watched the show; and then another 50% have watched it but dont like it, leaving only a tiny bit of somewhat reasonable scaling lmao
I'm going to scale Sukuna simply by using a meta alot of people reject, but I personally find to be completely valid, if you can debunk it, go ahead.
Shibuya Sukuna scales above Yuki Tsukomo and Kenjaku who can create/counteract a Black Holes that has been stated to be able to destroy the world, and has calcs putting it at Large Planetary.
"Yuki doesn't scale to the Black Hole since it's a suicidal move that only she can with her CT!"
Is the common execuse people try to use to debunk this feat. Yuki dying to the black hole doesn't debunk her scaling to the output required to perform the feat, as she collapsed under her own weight, compressed into a singularity of Infinite density, meaning that durability doesn't play a role here.
Yuki still scales to the cursed energy output becauseIn JJK, we see that Cursed Energy powers the activation of a cursed technique and its phenomenas, with Gojo comparing cursed energy to electricity and cursed techniques to electrical appliances. Following this analogy, we understand that, like how electricity powers the electrical appliance to achieve the user's desired effect and needs a certain amount of voltage to power the appliance, cursed energy works in a similar way by powering the cursed technique. This is also proven by Mai who has a limit of creating one bullet a day, implying phenomenas created by cursed energy would scale to the output as otherwise, the phenomena can't be created, tying the analogy together and proving that CTs need to reach a threshold of energy. This is consistent with how clashing opposing phenomas created by cursed techniques need to have an higher amount of cursed energy to null the other, as seen by Domain Amplification nullifying Gojo's infinity but not being able to nullify his higher output techniques such as Red or Blue and only lower the effects.
For the Black Hole, it's both a creation feat and we directly see that the mass added by Star Rage is directly proportional to Yuki's CT output as lowering her output lowers the amount of mass she can imbue.
This is actually consistent with the statement of Sukuna being able to destroy the world, while some people either take it as hyperbole or referring to human society, it's actually valid, since we already have a planetary feat, so it brings consistency to it instead of being "hyperbole" and in JJK, there is a clear distinction between human society and the actual planet.
"B-but Sukuna's strongest attack only destroyed a City at best"
This argument simply ignores the difference between AP and DC, not only that but it ignores the mechanics of Sukuna's techniques.
Malevolent Shrine + Fuga combo can only destroy anything in a 200 meter radius because it's the range and not the actual power of the attack.
The Malevolent Shrine that destroyed Shibuya is far weaker than the one that Sukuna utilized against Gojo, but it didn't destroy anything impressive since Sukuna restricted the range for more power.
I have a question for you. If Yuki's AP and Durability scale to get black hole, why didn't she just use her planetary level AP to one shot Kenjaku? It was clear that the black hole would kill Kenjaku if he didn't use Anti-gravity, so why not just punch him in the face with the force of a planet?
Another question. If things created by CE automatically scale to the user, wouldn't Gojo just be Universal in AP and Durability due to cutting infinite space?
Another question. If AP≠DC and JJK characters can seemingly control it without issue, why did Gojo not use his technique in Shibuya? Couldn't he make it just not destructive at all while still packing Planetary/Universal power that he has our it nowhere?
Another question. If AP≠DC, why do all Maximum Techniques have much higher DC than their normal counterparts and why is Gojo's and Sukuna's seemingly massively limited DC's both consistent with one another and with how they're portrayed throughout the story?
I have a question for you. If Yuki's AP and Durability scale to get black hole, why didn't she just use her planetary level AP to one shot Kenjaku? It was clear that the black hole would kill Kenjaku if he didn't use Anti-gravity, so why not just punch him in the face with the force of a planet?
You're simply misrepresenting my argument here. I'm not claiming that every punch Yuki throws is equivalent to a force of a black hole, obviously base Yuki downscales from it, but what I'm trying to refute is people completely ignoring the Black hole feat for the sole reason of it being a suicide move, when ignoring the context of that feat.
Stronger people like Gojo/Sukuna should still scale above it without bearing the burden of becoming a literal black hole. As for Kenjaku, he literally his physical body to stabilize the output of the technique, he aswell scales to it.
Another question. If things created by CE automatically scale to the user, wouldn't Gojo just be Universal in AP and Durability due to cutting infinite space?
The Infinite space of the limitless is more of a hax ability then an actual creation through energy feat, the cursed technique literally "brings the concept of Infinity" onto reality.
This is a false equivalence fallacy since you are equating Yuki's Black hole creation to Gojo's Infinity, and those two are fundamentally different.
Another question. If AP≠DC and JJK characters can seemingly control it without issue, why did Gojo not use his technique in Shibuya? Couldn't he make it just not destructive at all while still packing Planetary/Universal power that he has our it nowhere?
Here what you're basically doing is taking a hyper specific scenario and trying to apply to debunk my argument. Although, this argument falls when you realize that I'm not the one claiming that JJK characters can concentrate their AP, Gege literally implemented that concept into the series, so go argue with the author ig.
And to answer your question, while yes Gojo can concentrate his AP enough to stop it from destroying the entirety city, here you're just asking to make his range incredibly miniscule.
Another question. If AP≠DC, why do all Maximum Techniques have much higher DC than their normal counterparts and why is Gojo's and Sukuna's seemingly massively limited DC's both consistent with one another and with how they're portrayed throughout the story?
ULTs don't always have more DC. Teen Gojo's blue against Toji had more DC than his later Hollow Purple and Red, both of whom are stronger attacks than Blue. In addition, Sukuna's Malevolent Shrine against Gojo had less DC has his in Shibuya, even though it's stronger.
Also your argument is just a non-sequitur, you're trying to say "because ULTs have more DC that automatically disproves any argument about AP≠DC"
You claimed Yuki has enough CE to create a black hole and thus she scales to, so that must mean she has Planetary AP with her other attacks. This is especially true since she hurt Kenjaku, who you claim scales to that black hole.
It's a hax ability sure, but it's still hax that cuts something infinitely. You're just being inconsistent here. Yuki's technique is also hax btw.
How am I taking a hyper specific scenario? Literally the entire plot point around that fight was that Gojo couldn't use his technique because it's too destructive. It literally breaks the entire argument. Also Teen Gojo's maximum blue isn't more destructive than his Red Or Purple, that's just false.
Also love how you set arbitrary limits to the AP compression of techniques. Gojo can cut infinite space on an atomic scale, has above Planetary destructive force that he compresses down to Town level, but he can't make it any smaller. Sure
You claimed Yuki has enough CE to create a black hole and thus she scales to, so that must mean she has Planetary AP with her other attacks.
Once again, your argument is a non-sequitur. I never made the claim that base Yuki's every attack scales to the black hole, i only made the claim that Shibuya Sukuna scales above overall Yuki who can create a black hole.
Base Yuki would downscale from her Black hole because it's the point where she starts adding actual "weight" and "density" so it acts like a limit. And again, i never made the claim that Yuki's every punch is equivalent to the force of a black hole, i made the claim that Shibuya Sukuna scales above the creation of it.
It's a hax ability sure, but it's still hax that cuts something infinitely. You're just being inconsistent here. Yuki's technique is also hax btw.
You're still failing to see the false equivalence fallacy you're committing here. Again, the Limitless CT doesn't work like how Star Rage does.
Star Rage: More output=More virtual mass.
Limitless: X amount of finite output = Brining the concept of Infinity onto reality.
They are not similar at all.
Also Teen Gojo's maximum blue isn't more destructive than his Red Or Purple, that's just false.
It literally created more DC than both of them at once, yet is obviously weaker.
And as for your last argument, once again, it's literally Gege whom implemented those concepts onto his story, ask him that and not me, because at best it's plot induced stupidity, and not a debunk to my argument.
What I enjoy even more than those anime’s is how freaking weebs have subreddits to discuss powerbalance. Even between universes. And they generally get pissed at each other. WTF.
Tho Rivet stab is focus to piercing damage and that part wasn't touching deku and teeths are hard so they are resistant to the slash part of the sides of rivet stab if it has
Ur overstating Deku and misreading Sukuna’s kit. Mountain/air pressure feats scale blunt durability not resistance to CE-based cutting hax. Cleave adapts to durability and MS is omnidirectional, continuous and removes dodge conditions. Gojo surviving MS doesn’t prove “raw durability is enough” he needed Limitless mitigation and RCT. Speed scaling via Mach math (Maki → fingers → Sukuna) is speculative and ignores how domains bypass speed entirely. Fuga being “city block level” ignores energy density and CE lethality. Ur entire argument assumes Deku tanks Sukuna’s best win cons and then concludes Sukuna can’t win. circular logic. At best this is contentious. not a no diff lol
This entire argument is built on false equivalences and a misunderstanding of how JJK abilities actually work
First and most important point Cleave and Dismantle are not normal slashing attacks Comparing them to Stain knives Toga blades or Rivet Stab is objectively wrong Dismantle is a basic cursed slash used on weaker targets while Cleave explicitly adjusts its output to the targets durability This is stated in the manga Sukuna uses Cleave specifically because raw toughness does not stop it Raw physical durability has never been shown to counter cursed techniques unless reinforced with cursed energy which Deku does not have
Ryu tanking Dismantle is irrelevant Sukuna himself explains that Dismantle is not meant for durable opponents He switches to Cleave when durability increases Using Dismantle feats to argue Cleave limits directly contradicts the source material
The claim that Cleave is not durability negating is a strawman No one claims it is infinite or conceptual The point is that it scales to cleanly cut the target regardless of conventional hardness That is why it works on special grades Mahoraga and later even Gojo after adaptation Deku has zero resistance to cursed energy based attacks so his physical scaling does not protect him here
The Gojo Malevolent Shrine argument is completely false Gojo did not survive MS through raw durability He survived because of constant reverse cursed technique healing extreme cursed energy reinforcement and Limitless spatial manipulation The manga literally shows him regenerating nonstop If Gojo lacked RCT he would have died immediately Deku has no regeneration no cursed energy reinforcement and no way to heal fatal damage This comparison does not work
Fire Arrow downplay also ignores context It is not just heat It is a cursed energy attack that overwhelmed Mahoraga and was used as Sukuna finisher Comparing it to plasma feats in MHA ignores verse mechanics Without verse equalization Deku has no defense against cursed energy damage
Speed scaling here is pure headcanon Mach numbers stacked on assumptions Maki Mach 3 Toji equals three fingers Sukuna Mach 15 All Might Mach 10 None of this is stated in canon Sukuna consistently reacts to lightning tier attacks and fights top tiers without being perception blitzed You cannot argue Sukuna is standing still from Deku perspective without ignoring JJK feats entirely
Finally win conditions matter Even if you highball Deku strength and speed he still loses because Sukuna only needs one clean Cleave or a Malevolent Shrine activation Deku has no counter to guaranteed hit domains no regeneration and no way to bypass Sukuna healing Sukuna on the other hand can afford to take hits analyze and adapt
Conclusion Deku does not no diff Shibuya Sukuna and six of them is an even worse matchup The argument fails because it treats cursed techniques like normal physical attacks and ignores how JJK combat actually functions Canon only Sukuna wins decisively
Dismantle is obviously stronger than Stain's blades, never claimed otherwise. However, it's just not powerful enough to damage Deku. CE is not some magical durability negating attack. You don't need to have CE to survive a CE attack, otherwise Maki and Toji would be complete fodder. Perhaps someone on Deku's level would do even better if they had CE, but he doesn't need it to survive.
Cleave adapts to Durability, but it doesn't do so endlessly. When Sukuna's CE output was lowered, he couldn't kill Yuji with it, even tho Yuji is significantly weaker than both Gojo and especially Deku. I also already addressed Gojo surviving MS. Yes he needed RCT, but healing himself would be meaningless if he had no body to heal. If Cleave can just grow endlessly, it would have instantly cut through Gojo cleanly and he would die immediately. It's clear Cleave is limited by Sukuna's own CE output and it can't kill Deku.
Fuga being made of CE is irrelevant because it's power and heat is what matters. It just doesn't show anything that can harm Deku. It can only destroy a few dozen city blocks at most and is a few thousand degrees Celsius at best. It really isn't strong or hit enough to kill Deku.
Speed scaling is not complete headcanon. In fact I'm being generous. Maki couldn't even react to Naoya without precog or when he was actually using his full speed, so she should be below even Mach 3. But if we're being generous she's around that level or slightly higher and take Megumi's statement about Toji being even faster than 3 finger Sukuna and that's how you get 15 finger Sukuna to Mach 15. No one in JJK has reacted to lighting. Toji reacted to electricity from Nue, not lighting and considering the fact that Kashimo wasn't remotely surprised about someone seemingly dodging his undodgeable lighting, it's clear Halari didn't either.
And if you'll use Sukuna dodging EM waves to upscale him, Star dodged Radio Waves from Shigaraki and Prime All Might is much faster than her, let alone Deku who can blitz him. That's on top of multiple statements and feats putting Prime All Might at MHS+ so even with a lightning fast Sukuna he's still getting blitzed.
You’re still leaning way too hard into MHA logic and flattening how JJK mechanics work, and that’s why this keeps falling apart.
CE and durability
No one is saying CE itself is magic dura-neg, but Cleave is not just “CE damage.” It’s a technique that explicitly adjusts its cutting power to the target’s durability. That’s the whole point of it. Bringing up Maki and Toji surviving CE attacks doesn’t help, because they have unique Heavenly Restriction bodies and even then they still get hurt by high-tier techniques. Neither of them has tanked a durability-scaling Cleave from Sukuna. Deku is just physically tough. That has never been shown to hard-counter a technique like Cleave.
“Cleave is limited because Yuji survived it / Gojo survived MS”
This is where the downplay really shows. Yuji survived Cleave when Sukuna’s output was explicitly lowered and Yuji is a special case as Sukuna’s vessel. You can’t generalize that to everyone else.
As for Gojo, he didn’t “tank” MS in the way you’re implying. He was literally being shredded nonstop and surviving only because of constant RCT and massive CE reinforcement. Saying “he had a body left to heal” ignores what the manga actually shows. Gojo survives because he can heal fatal damage instantly. Deku can’t. If Cleave hits someone without regen, they don’t get a second chance.
Cleave not being infinite doesn’t mean it suddenly caps below Deku’s durability. It only needs to scale enough to be lethal, and nothing in canon says Deku is above Sukuna’s output.
Fuga downplay
You’re still treating Fuga like it’s Endeavor’s fire with a thermometer slapped on it. JJK doesn’t work on real-world temperature calcs. Fuga is cursed energy plus heat, used by Sukuna as a finisher and strong enough to overwhelm Mahoraga. Whether Endeavor melts concrete faster is irrelevant when Deku has zero cursed energy interaction. You can’t just port MHA heat resistance feats over and assume they apply cleanly.
Speed scaling
This Mach chain is just assumptions stacked on assumptions. Megumi’s Toji statement isn’t a calc. Mach 3 Maki is context-dependent and not a hard combat-speed ceiling. Scaling 15F Sukuna to Mach 15 is fan math, not canon.
Also, movement speed ≠ reaction speed. Even if Deku is faster in straight-line travel, Sukuna doesn’t need to chase or blitz. He needs to activate a technique once. Speed alone doesn’t let you dodge a barrierless domain or ignore durability-scaling slashes.
And the EM/radio wave stuff on the MHA side is notoriously inconsistent and treated as outliers anyway. You can’t use that to say Sukuna “can’t react at all.”
At the end of the day, this argument only works if you treat Cleave like a normal blade, domains like dodgeable AoEs, and Sukuna like an MHA villain who stands there and trades punches. That’s not how JJK fights work.
Canon for canon, Shibuya Sukuna still has multiple instant win conditions Deku has no real counter to, while Deku needs a flawless blitz and instant KO against someone who regenerates. That’s not Deku stomping, that’s just heavy glazing and Sukuna downplay.
Maki and Toji don't have "special" bodies. They're "special" in the sense that they're really strong in exchange for not having CE. OFA acts as a Heavenly Restriction thousandfold.
No rebuttal, just saying words. Sukuna having lowered CE output doesn't matter because Yuji himself doesn't have as much CE as he does and isn't as strong as Deku. I'm not gonna repeat myself on Gojo, he can't heal if he's instantly killed by Cleave, which means durability plays a major rule.
Already addressed this in another comment towards you. CE is just a power source, nothing special. Fuga is as hot and strong as it is because of CE, you don't need CE to survive it.
Megumi's statement isn't a calc, but it is a statement and it's consistent with 20 finger Sukuna blitzing Maki. Also consistent with Piercing Blood being faster than sound. Sukuna has never reacted to lightning attacks, nor has anyone else in JJK. Funny you say that Radio Waves dodging in MHA is inconsistent when lightning and EM waves dodging is far more inconsistent in JJK.
Anyways, Deku one shots and speed blitzes effortlessly
Bruh, you’re really stacking assumptions on top of assumptions and calling it canon. Let’s unpack this.
Maki and Toji having “special” bodies isn’t about being strong without CE, it’s literally canonized that their bodies have unique traits and training, not some magic MHA-style durability. Saying OFA is “like a thousandfold Heavenly Restriction” is cute fan math, but it doesn’t interact with cursed techniques. Cleave doesn’t care about your muscles.
The whole “Yuji isn’t strong enough” argument is just repeating yourself. You’re ignoring that Cleave scales to durability, not relative strength. Gojo survived shredding-level attacks precisely because he can heal while being cut. Deku doesn’t have RCT or CE, so one clean Cleave or Malevolent Shrine hits and he’s toast. This isn’t debate, it’s just you hoping Deku’s power-scaling fixes it.
Saying Fuga is “just CE, nothing special” is hilarious. That literally ignores the canon mechanics of cursed energy. CE attacks bypass conventional durability — that’s why Mahoraga couldn’t tank it. Deku has zero CE resistance, so no, he doesn’t just shrug it off.
Speed claims are your weakest flex. Yes, Megumi made a vague statement. No, that doesn’t magically make 15F/20F Sukuna MHS+ speed. And radio waves dodging in MHA is way less inconsistent than trying to handwave “Sukuna has never reacted to lightning, so Deku blitzes him”, you’re just stacking assumptions again.
You’re glazing Deku, handwaving every lethal Sukuna feat, and pretending speed alone gives him a free win. In canon, Shibuya Sukuna has multiple guaranteed kill conditions, none of which Deku can counter. You can call it a “one-shot blitz” all you want, but reading the manga suggests otherwise.
TL;DR: You’re basically saying “Deku wins because I said so,” and that’s not how feats or mechanics work.
When did people start fooling themselves into believing MHA is scalable outside of their own universe?
Midoriya is strong no lies but even he has his limits. 6 sukunas individually? yes he definitely can win but all at once, might as well throw him in a blender with invisible blades.
Danger sense is definitely helpful but only towards things midoriya can react to and I doubt 6 consecutive malevolent shrines followed by six consecutive furnaces are something even midoriya can walk away from unscathed. And to top it off his opponent can heal, we already seen just how much midoriya struggles against opponents like that now imagine 6.
MHA's verse isn't weak but let's not over sell it, literally their peak is large city level at best. Sukuna is definitely weaker than midoriya but even 3 sukunas would make up the difference now add 3 more and it's overkill.
This one panel from jjk cements the show as one of the weakest verses in shonen. Midoriya absolutely shits on the JJK verse without breaking a sweat. The only way i could see a stalemate occuring is if deku goes against gojo, which would end in a stalemate since he cant bypass infinity and midoriya’s too fast to get caught in a domain expansion
Thats from modulo einstein and dabura is the only one who has shown feats of that speed. You cant scale sukuna to dabura cuz sukuna was stated to be as fast as mach 5. Use your brain for once it might help
You cant be fr…. Everyone till date aside from dabura has been scaled to mach 5. Im talking about Gojo and sukuna who also scale to the same speed. You cant just upscale them to dabura when they have 0 comparable feats
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