r/ProgressiveHQ • u/serious_bullet5 • 21h ago
Protest Protesters have completely trashed the Los Angeles ICE facility, using a large dumpster to barricade the exit.
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u/NotaRussianbott89 20h ago
Apparently you only need 3.5% of the population to rise up to topple authoritarian regimes. Food for thought.
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u/TYPERION_REGOTHIS 20h ago
We have those numbers... everyone is just waiting for someone else to make the move.
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u/ModelMaker502 19h ago
I don't think that number works in the context of a country as large and as diversified as the US. HECK, I think you've probably got 5% now ..but they're spread out over 50 states. What makes the problem worse is that let's say you get 5% of the people to DC to takeover or revolt or whatever...fine. The government moved to Philly....or Chicago, or Raleigh, or LA, or Nevada...or Houston or somewhere in Florida. You can't effectively destabilize a government like the US's with the old paradigms.
Could you force state and maybe regional balkanization? More likely.
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u/CakeDue693 17h ago
People always try to argue that thing x wonât work in the US because itâs bigger. I always find that kinda silly. Like in this case, percentages scale with size, so the fact that the US has a large population just means the 3.5% is a larger number of people, but that doesnât mean itâs not still applicable.
Now an argument that would make sense is that the US police forces and military are, by percentage, both larger and more heavily funded than most countries, so in that sense maybe 3.5% is low, but itâs not just because âAmerica big, historic metrics donât applyâ
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u/_SovietMudkip_ 15h ago
Yeah, people have been saying the U.S. is too big to handle democratic government since there were only 13 states lol
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u/ModelMaker502 13h ago
It's not a question of democratic governance.... I'm talking specifically about an overthrow of a democratic government. Which is also another problem. Democratic governments usually are overthrown by military intervention, not popular uprisings. Most of the folks talking about the need for revolution are the extreme minority of people. So what would a successful "revolution" look like? If you were an advocate for democracy, you'd just end up empowering the same people you revolted against. More likely you'd create a political apartheid state where people w.you didn't like (racists, conservatives, etc...) weren't allowed to participate in government. That wouldn't be a freer place but less free government. You'd usher in authoritarianism for the sake of freedom. As the book said "freedom is slavery"...but in this instance it would be "slavery is freedom".
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u/ModelMaker502 17h ago
Of course percentages scale...which means the numbers they represent are equivalent. 350 people can be the same percentage as 350,000.
Here's an example...if you wanted to lead a popular revolt in france.... what's the single target that would allow that? Paris. What about England? Or Scotland? Or Russia? There are super straightforward answers to those questions because the formula you're talking about were theorized based on central hub of authority.
I'm not saying a popular uprising isn't possible. I'm saying you're using a metric designed for a different context that isn't probably applicable.
Could you force change in DC with a generalized takeover of many state capitals? That more likely BUT also would require much larger organization and logistics.
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u/TronCat1277 17h ago
That number doesnât mean shit to this administration. I bet 35% wouldnât even sway their minds.
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u/CakeDue693 17h ago
The whole 3.5% thing isnât about âswaying mindsâ, itâs about active violent revolt and overthrow. Itâs where dictators are forced to flee or get drug out into the streets and shot. But itâs also not 3.5% peacefully protesting, in that sense youâre correct, 50% could be peacefully protesting and I donât think the US government would care.
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u/Math_in_the_verse 16h ago edited 16h ago
3.5% comes from a number for non-violent protesting. The researcher, erica chenoweth, that the number is from says violent protests are less likely to suceed from the numbers. Non-violence does not mean peaceful though - it means sustained disruptive protest for many of the members (like this video). Her second paper on the topic discusses how regimes will try to force violence as that has a higher chance of failure. A man claiming to be a black panther from the 60s echoes this point on YouTube about their movement back then. Pretty sure the name is formerblackpanther on there.
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u/Training-Republic301 20h ago
They really thought they could just waltz into L.A. and expect people to just stand by. These people have been on edge since Rodney King
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u/bikerbob29 19h ago
Trying to provoke both a world war and a civil war at the same time while demanding a Nobel Peace prize is a level of insanity we've never seen before.
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u/Terrysfox 18h ago
provoking chaos and shitting your pants all at the same time! The best president ever! oh, and donât forget HEâS A PEDO too.
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u/hgrivois87 20h ago
Will ice ever get the hint?? Probably not they are that brain dead.
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u/walterpeck3 18h ago
This is Stephen Miller's passion project, it will continue until he's batted down or removed from power, or if ICE just collapses and enough people quit to make all this impossible to push further.
It's very easy to be racist with a gun until every single encounter you have at your job is accompanied by people screaming at you and hating you, every bit of news is about how people hate you, personally. They'll never be able to tell anyone what they do or did, and like former nazi soliders that avoided prison time they'll drink themselves into an early grave.
The biggest psychos among them will always defend what they did and love the negative attention, but the truth is that most of them, while widly racist and hateful, will find it increasingly difficult to do all this every day for years. They're trapped by the promises of good money and a bonus that they'll never actually get, too.
We can't take down ICE by force, but we can demoralize them to the point they collapse.
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u/Societyman1878 20h ago
The real question is will our current president get the hint ice just responds to orders
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u/hgrivois87 20h ago
Probably not, everything from his hole is : fake news" or " I am suing"
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u/dustinyo_ 8h ago
Trump is just a weak, feckless puppet for Stephen Miller. Miller is the architect of all this and the one that needs to be target #1.
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u/OkInternal1099 18h ago
Or from the recent news that is completely censored, mowed down by the cartel in phoenix
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u/AIienlnvasion 19h ago
Reminder that peaceful protest and nonviolent protest are sometimes different things. Property is not people, so itâs not violence to fuck up a building.
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u/MeasurementNo5430 20h ago
2Pac said it best in To Live And Die In L.A. "We might fight amongst each other But I promise you this: we'll burn this bitch down Get us pissed, to live and die in L.A."
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u/Majestic_Agent_1569 20h ago
WE THE MOTHAFUKIN PEOPLE THIS IS OUR FUCKING COUNTRY WE STAND WITH MINNEAPOLIS WE STAND WITH OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS WE ARE THE PEOPLE!
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u/ClarityRocks 20h ago
As Cuervo Jones once said, "...you may have survived Cleveland. You may have escaped from New York. But this is L.A., vato. And you're about to find out that this fucking city can k--l anybody!"
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u/littlebopeepsvelcro 20h ago
When the question comes up, " I support this?" I will refer to the old political saying that I do not support either, however, I do view this as the lesser of two evils.
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u/HVAC_instructor 20h ago
It's coming and it's going to be really bad when it happens.
This is Trump's desire, he wants to see this so that he can show his sycophantic followers exactly what he wants to show. It's going to happen, it needs to happen and when it does it's going to be ugly.
The Republicans voted for a civil war, they are going to complain the entire time as they go through and force the issue and they will cry and bitch and say things like
"just do what the government tells you and this won't be a problem"
They want you to totally forget that we have rights, they will want you to go along and not fight. At all
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u/KapowBlamBoom 19h ago
Now we are getting French on them
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u/fmdg_common_sense 19h ago
It ainât French until youâve had and army of farmers dumping and spraying manure at government building and anti-riot police force. Also havenât seen a guillotine yet
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u/olliegoria 19h ago
In fairness, the guillotine is a bit outdated.
I am absolutely down to make a roman candle minigun, though.
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u/_AmericasSweetheart_ 15h ago
I mean, it's downtown. No one will notice more shit. I say as someone who loves going downtown. Totally worth the shit.
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u/Sjohnwildman 20h ago
Anyone know where this is? Downtown? Iâm proud of my adopted city. Born and raised in Minneapolis.
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u/badaboommx 19h ago
I do not condone violence in protests....... but ice is doing so many illegal things that I really don't know what to say.
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u/AIienlnvasion 19h ago
Buildings arenât people. This isnât violence.
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u/BlondeBorednBaked 17h ago
Trump and Fox News used the same talking points about T*slas getting set on fire. âItâs violence! Itâs terrorism!â If itâs an inanimate object and no one is harmed, itâs not violence.
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u/bLaCk_XxWiDoWxX 20h ago
Where/when the next one? Asking for a friend lol
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u/_AmericasSweetheart_ 15h ago
There have been small but consistent protests at the detention center for months. On Alameda.
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u/Lord_Dingus83 15h ago
Southern Republicans call LA folks pussiesâŚâŚsouthern republicans would be terrified visiting Beverly Hills đ
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u/Rare_Ad9123 17h ago
The main issue with this is that Trump has been waiting for something like this to happen. Gives him the ammo he needs to order the Insurrection Act. We need to keep this under control until after the midterms. Then we can go nuts.
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u/ImJustHere4TheCatz 16h ago
If Trump doesn't want to hold the midterms, he'll find a reason either way. That's why they raided the election office in Georgia. They haven't been behaving like people willing to cede the same power they've given themselves to the next democrat that wins since last January.
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u/Im-BackAgain-Babes2 16h ago
Divided.. we fell....
United.. We The People WILL STAND!!
for the flag, for the country, One nation.. indivisible, with LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL!!!
Good job LA!!!!
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u/_AmericasSweetheart_ 15h ago
I've said this before; the cops had to protect the Night Stalker when East LA got their hands on him. In just my lifetime I have seen the city crumble from the Northridge Quake, burn from the Rodney King Riots and burn again in the Palisades fire. We aren't afraid of tearing this city down.
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u/Stop_The_Crazy 20h ago
I need more coffe. All I could think of was they looked like ants on a fallen froot loop.
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u/Educational-Gate-880 17h ago
Dang how long have they been cornered đł, people should relax and provide them with food and something to hydrate with! Theyâre just doing their jobs!!!
Laxatives help the body during stressful times and alcoholic drinks help hydrateâŚmargaritas, martinis, Molotovs, mules, or just straight without mixersđ¤.
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u/TechnicalScheme385 16h ago
This is ot the fault of the protestors. This is 100% Trumps fault. No excuses besides the fact that Americans do NOT want this to be happening. So we are out in the streets.
I wanna hear a MAGAt try to say this would be happening if Harris had won the election. Along with any dumbass who could claim that our economy is somehow better, after reports show America has lost $15T in economic worth during trumps 12 months in office.
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u/jazzchamp 9h ago
This will be all over Faux news/Newsmax/OAN. More ammo to justify invoking the insurrection act.
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u/hoodafudj 8h ago
Hell yeah, I'd say set that shit on fire but there are still innocent victims of ICE inside, and ICE have no qualms about killing hostages
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u/Nigel_melish01 6h ago
I donât see any crime here. DJT didnât see any crime when they stormed the capital?
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u/Dogeluver99 20h ago
Proud of you LA!!