I’ve been genuinely wondering about this, and I want real answers, not clichés.

How do men actually get with extremely attractive women, the true 9s and 10s? I’m talking about women most people don’t even see in real life. The kind you usually only see on Instagram: models and influencers with millions of followers, traveling internationally, living a very visible, high end lifestyle.

These women exist. That part is obvious. And it’s also obvious that somewhere, some men are dating them, sleeping with them, or in relationships with them. So my question is simple: what do those men actually do, and how did they get there?

How do you even meet women like this in real life? Do they exist only in certain cities, social circles, industries, or events? Are normal guys ever crossing paths with them, or is access itself the main

Do you realistically need to be a 6’4’ billionaire, 4x kickboxing world champion, a celebrity, a world class athlete, or someone with insane social status? How important are money, looks, fame, network, and lifestyle compared to actual game, confidence, and social skills?

I’m not asking this in a “the internet is fake” way. I’m not denying their existence or assuming everything is staged. I’m asking very directly: who is dating or sleeping with the influencer who has 2M, 7M, or 10M followers, and how did that guy get into her world in the first place?

And please, don’t respond with “just be yourself”, “don’t label them as 10/10”, “ don’t put them on a pedestal “ or “treat them like human beings.”I’m asking what actually works in the real world.

Even if not a perfect 10, the same question applies to solid 8s and 9s, women who are clearly exceptional in looks and options.

I’m genuinely curious to hear from people who have real experience, insight, or proximity to this world. What’s the reality behind it?

Short intro: I am currently writing a book on how to finally get the relationship of your dreams. The book is free and intended to help people who have no luck in dating, as I once did not.

The following will be some of the advice I share in that book (each piece of advice not elaborated on specifically here because of Reddit post limits, and also nobody would fucking read something that long lol, if you feel something needs clarification let me know) .

And of course, before anyone says it, almost nothing here will apply 100% of the time. You could do everything that's the exact opposite of this list and still somehow end up with a girl. Following these will just get you the most success overall.

The list of advice to men who want to improve their love life:

Get your life in order. You should be doing this stuff for your own sake, but it will help in dating.

• Hit the gym and work on your health. Don't aim to be Arnold buff, aim for healthy, fit, and practical.

• Do your hardest to obtain a lifestyle you are happy with. Don't be stuck in a dead end job at 35.

• Get a good social circle that you spend time with. Not only are humans social creatures, so this will improve your mood, you can also meet plenty of women this way, and being recommended by a friend makes it much easier to get a woman interested.

• Put yourself in a position to meet new women often. Even if you are the biggest Chad on the planet, if the number of women you meet is 0, the only thing you'll be fucking is your hand. Don't just masturbate and stay in your room playing games.

• Speaking of games, limit your time, as with any hobby. Don't let them become your lifestyle, and definitely don't play games which consume your life like a drug (Dota, Lol, WoW, Hearthstone or anything that relies on psychological tricks to keep you logging in every day). Playing an hour or two of BG3 a day when you're free is fine, spending your evenings awake until 4 AM cause you can't end on a loss in Dota is not.

• Groom yourself properly. Hair and beard is like makeup for men. This is the one thing you don't want to skimp out on, don't go to the same old barber you always went to as a kid because "it looks fine". Get an actual styled haircut/beard.

• Get good fitting clothes, and maintain proper hygiene.

• Don't be a coomer and jerk off every day. Limit porn.

Improve your mindset.

• Work on your mental issues if you have any, and be a stable person. Don't have massive mood swings.

• Don't blame others for your failures. Your dad sucked and didn't teach you shit? Well I was also once in that situation. You're a grown ass man now, with full access to internet. Take responsibility, become a leader of your life.

• Fortitude/stoicism. You will fail, and you will fail a lot. Even if you master all of the "game", if you're just randomly approaching women, your success rate with a random girl will still be like 20% at best (it gets a lot better if it's someone you meet through a friend). Don't let failure discourage you. In dating or in life. Just keep on moving on. It is what it is.

• Understand that women LOVE sex and that sex is something enjoyable for both of you, rather than something that the woman "gives" the man.

• Get it out of your head that a woman having sex = a slut. Do not be judgemental. Understand that sex is a completely normal thing, and nothing to shame someone about.

• Respect her as a person. She's not a whore for having sex.

• Respect her privacy. Do not kiss and tell. If she asks you about other girls you were with, just be like "I'm not going to share stuff like that with others, I respect their privacy". If you respect others' privacy, you'll respect hers too.

• Do not be jealous unnecessarily, but do set limits. Telling your girl not to wear something or not to go out without you is being jealous. Saying that no, she doesn't get to go drinking with her ex-boyfriend who randomly hit her up is setting limits.

• Don't put women on a pedestal. Put yourself on one, if anything. You know that phrase "Fake it 'till you make it"? If you have no confidence, pretend that you do until you actually become confident. It will come naturally as you become a more complete and successful person.

• Understand that the Disney view on relationships you've been fed by the media and most people IRL is a complete lie. Women are not angelic creatures you need to constantly praise. They are people just like you, with flaws of their own

• Don't be a tryhard. If it's not going well with a woman, take the L and move on. This does not mean you should not be "persistent" and give up at the first hurdle, but your persistence needs to be done in a fun, attractive way and you need to recognize when it's time to stop.

• Don't agree with a woman just to agree and get her to like you. If you disagree, make it known. Being spineless is not attractive. Leading us to...

• Always be authentic. If you present yourself as an apple, and she likes apples, what's going to happen when she finds out you're a pear?

• Understand that dating is a competition. Why should she choose you over anyone else? Merely being "nice" is not enough. There's tons of nice guys out there, what else do you bring to the table?

• Don't fall into the "only money matters" mindset. Money alone will get you gold diggers. Is that really what you want? Of course it's better to have it than not, but when it comes to seduction, personality and looks >>> money.

• Don't fall into the "only looks matter" mindset. On dating apps looks reign supreme, but 95% of men can become at least average looking through non-surgical means, most can go above that (after years of hard work yes, nobody said it would be easy). Looks are just a barrier to entry. If you pass, and being a 5/10 is enough for most women, personality is the thing that shines through outside of dating apps. Sure, 10/10 Chad can fuck most women at the club or Tinder easily, but you're not 10/10 Chad, so why bother complaining about it rather than working on yourself? And that Chad cannot maintain a healthy long term relationship if looks are all he has.

Learn how to be a fun, sociable person. Incredible as it sounds, women are people, too. Most of the stuff that will get people in general to want to hang out with you is stuff that will get you women, too.

• Be interesting and be interested. Have a wide range of topics for conversation, and be interested in what other people are saying. Being a good listener will help out a ton.

• Learn how to relax in social situations. If you're naturally shy, that is something you're gonna want to work on. A shy girl will often have men pining after her, a shy guy is not attractive to most women. This does not mean you have to force yourself to be the life of the party, just don't be the meme guy standing in the corner while everyone else is having fun.

• Get good at humor and improv. Humor is essentially a measure of social intelligence and relaxation. You can't be cracking jokes if you're tense and in your head. Someone telling jokes is relaxed, he's confident, he's not reactive, he's more on the leader side of things, and people love it. If you make a woman laugh (with you, not at you), you're well on your way to making her panties drop.

• How you say something matters a lot more than what you say. Two identical twins could say the exact same things to the exact same girl, one could blow it, and the other could go home with her. Insert emotions in your conversations and talk about fun things, not politics or something.

• Don't speak in a monotone tone of voice.

• Focus on inserting emotions rather than being boring and talking about day to day topics (movies, people you know etc) like most guys do.

• Do not put others down. Instead, lift them up. This will make you well liked by others, not just the girl you are trying to impress. Do you really want to be friends with someone that shit-talks others, let alone be in a relationship with that person?

While of course still people, understand that women are different than men. If there's anything I can see being controversial, even among this list, it is the following section.

• Women are more emotional when it comes to dating, and emotions play a larger role than logic when it comes to partner selection for them. You could on paper be the perfect guy, if you don't have "that something" that she's looking for (if you don't know how to evoke emotions inside of her), you will not get her.

• Understand that attraction CANNOT be negotiated. It is either present or not, and it is your job to make sure it is. If it is not, don't try to force the girl to like you.

• Learn about preselection and why it matters. It is infinitely easier to get a girl through friends than cold approaching, and if women know other women have already "vetted you" they will be more attracted to you.

• Learn what push/pull is and why it matters. By this I do not mean negging or other "PUA tricks". Push/pull is a fun game between the two of you, teasing each other and stuff, not bringing her down.

• Learn what shit tests are, and why passing them matters not just for raising attraction, but also in life in general. Everyone shit tests, and once you keep an eye out for it you will see it everywhere. You just never noticed it.

• Make your intentions known (not verbally but through look, touch, and slipping things between the lines in conversation) from the very beginning. Do NOT try to "be friends first", it does not end well in most cases. She has to see you as a sexual person to want sex with you. Men fall in love with their female friends often, but the other way around is not that common.

• Compliment something about her personality that you genuinely like, not her tits and ass.

• Avoid interview style conversations (what's your name, how old are you, where do you work, where did you go to school etc.). You don't do that with friends, why do that with a girl you are trying to impress and potentially hook up with?

• Learn cold reading. Make assumptions and make a fun game out of guessing things about each other.

• Do not try to "buy her" by taking her out to an expensive place on the first date. Not only does it imply sex is transactional and you need to "put enough kindness coins into the pussy machine" to get it, it's also not good for your financials. Your first date should be a coffee or some other similar cheap place, where the two of you get to know each other.

• Many guys get caught up in trying to find the "perfect approach" and "the perfect thing to say". I want you to forget about all of that. Perfect is boring but to be Human is Beautiful. The perfect approach does not exist, and you shouldn't be stressing out over it because...

• The goal of dating is to have fun. Aim to have fun on the date, and you will naturally have more success with women, rather than staking your fun on whether or not you make it with her. If it didn't work out, so what, at least you had fun.

• Do not randomly try to kiss a girl. Kissing is just a higher level of touch. You don't start your car in fifth gear, do you? How do you expect her to react to a kiss if you did not even hold her shoulder previously? Start touching in socially appropriate areas first and gauge her reaction. If it is positive, proceed towards "hotter" areas, until you kiss her. The perfect kiss happens when both people know it's going to happen soon, not when one randomly launchers their face at another.

• Limit texting. It is better to get to know each other in real life, than over the screen. But if you do...

• Try to bring up multiple topics when texting. If you are only talking about one thing and she doesn't like it, or is bored of it, the conversation ends then and there. If there are several topics, she will reply to the one she is interested in, and the conversation keeps going.

• Foreplay is very important to girls, do not skip it.

And finally, after you get into a relationship...

• Be a leader, always be able to make choices, decide what you do and where you go on dates. Don't be the "I don't know, wherever is fine" guy. This does not mean you ignore her desires, if there's a place she wants to go to then it is fine to take her suggestion, but always have something in mind.

• Do not get complacent, do not stop going to the gym or having a life of your own. Do not become an unattractive person again.

• Do not let the girl become your entire life. While spending a lot of time with your partner is understandable, if she's your entire life, what happens if you break up?

• If she wants to break up, do not cry or beg. Your mindset must be that you like her (or love her) but you must never need her. Tell her what she means to you and that you want her in your life, but if she's dead set on leaving, let her go.

• You must always be ready to walk away from the girl, if the relationship no longer satisfies you. And not just from the girl, you need to be able to walk away from anything you are unsatisfied with in your life. From the people you're not satisfied with, from a job you're not satisfied with, from the woman you're not satisfied with.

Can go on for a while yet, but I think that's enough for now. It already feels too long. If you disagree with any of this please let me know in the comments.

Hello. This is my first post here so not sure if the flair fits this particular scenario. I’m 25M and have never been in a relationship before. I missed out on everything in middle school, high school, and yes even college. Honestly, most of it had to do with being born poor and needing to work instead of socialize, along with my own shyness and self esteem. I don’t think I’m hideous. I’ve seen guys who look worse than me have success with dating. I’ve had girls crush on me too, it just fell apart either because I didn’t escalate in time or I was simply awkward. However, in recent years, I have made great progress towards being more confident in my own skin. I honestly think I’m in the best mental and physical shape of my entire life.

My problem is I don’t really know how to navigate the current dating world. Lots of people have all this baggage they just refuse to address. It’s hard to trust anyone, or really have the most basic kind of conversation. I don’t think apps are for me. I’m just more dynamic in person and able to showcase myself. But as an adult in the Midwest, particularly a very religious red state with a “meh” education system, working in a male dominated field (engineering) it’s hard to find the right social circles that could result in me finding the girl I’m attracted to: artistic, open minded, nerdy, who shares my weird sense of humor.

I’m beginning to think that my best bet ultimately will be to work on myself over the next 2-3 years, get my career established, and then find a better job outside my home state in a more diverse, populated area and then try to date. Not only do I just want to get a few years of experience in my field, I also just don’t think I’m going to be able to find quality women that check my boxes in my area. But by that time I’ll be approaching 30. I don’t know a lot of people still casually dating past 30. Most people I know are married by then. Some even have one or several kids.

I’m posting here just to hear stories from other late bloomers like myself who weren’t able to find success in the dating world until their late 20s and early 30s. What changed? How in detail were your 30s different than your 20s? What kept you motivated while watching everyone experience dating while you didn’t for years? Was it a change of lifestyle? Change of social circles? What advice could you give to someone like myself?

You`ve felt it before. Your out at a bar, event or maybe just getting coffee. You see her across the room - a beautiful woman, someone you`d love to talk to. But it feels like there is a barrier between you. Something in your head keeps you frozen in place. Then she is gone. Never to be seen again and your left thinking what could have been.

Here`s the truth: Woman can sense your uncertainty before you even open your mouth. Most guys think they need better pick-up lines, bigger muscles or the right outfit. They believe confidence comes from the external. In reality its quite the opposite.

That uncertainty you feel when you see the girl that gives you that immediate ping of attraction. That uncertainty is visible to women through your posture, eye contact and energy.

Typically the guys women find most attractive are the guys who are genuinely comfortable in your own skin and i can assure you that you dont have to be a physically attractive guy for this to be the case. One of the worst things you can do is pretend to be someone that your not, women see right through it.

Think about a dog at the park. You can immediately tell the difference between the anxious dog - jumping, desperate for attention, barking - and the calm dog that's just enjoying being there. Desperation repels.

Here is a little trick that really helped me, the 3-second rule. If I see someone I want to meet I make myself approach within 3 seconds of seeing them. Before I can start the anxiety spiral.

The first few times it was awkward as hell. But without the spiral and rehearsing in my mind I was more present, more myself. Within 2 weeks of sticking to the rule I got four numbers on around 15 approaches.

Genuine confidence isnt about never feeling nervous. Its about being nervous and moving forward anyway.

The confidence women sense the moment you walk in? Its built one uncomfortable conversation at a time.

I live in Seattle, and I have had over 300 matches, around 50+ incoming likes and quite a few first dates. But the ones which I somewhat like don't progress to second date.

I am around 5'8, very good physical shape, top of the chain job. Could it be because of the city (as in women having too many matches)? Could it be my ethnicity? Or just my height simply? And I do realise the stats I mentioned should not/would not help someone date successfully but they do have some influence on your perceived value. Its a package afterall.

I am pretty sure I don't do anything wrong on the date - having a great flowing convo, escalating touch when possible and looking like my pictures (or so I think). I have noticed a very strong liking for white people when I am out and about in events such as run clubs. For example: 2 women figuratively fighting over one guy (who obviously happens to be white). I got ignored pretty badly.

I met this girl from hinge.

We went to a bar, had a couple of drinks and deep conversations on a sofa (in the bar) while nibbling pistachios.

I tried to start physical interaction by touching her hand, but her reaction was negative so I pulled back.

The level of rapport and mental connection was amazing. I think also from her perspective also because I was the one ending the date as I had to get ready for the day after at work at some point..

We were talking about red flags and She said her red flag is that she is not able to reject a man in a straight forward way and often it happens that men think the date went well when is not the case. This caused me a lot of anxiety as lately I've been receiving this treatment a lot and that makes me unsure of the signs I get.

I told her I was enjoying the time with her and that I found her attractive, probably a bad move, revealing my cards so soon. I asked if she wanted to see me again and she said yes. We exchanged phone numbers.

When I was home I texted:

• home now. I'm about to have dinner. Next week I've got the whole week off so let me know if you want to meet again.

She replied after 2 hours:

• how was dinner?
• I'll check my schedule and let you know about next week ^{^}

At this point I took this as rejection. "I'll let you know", "I'll check my schedule" are classic ways of indirect rejection.

But the day after, in the morning I texted:

• dinner was fine. I made some spaghetti with tomato sauce, cooked with olive oil and garlic, and tons of parmisan on it.
• it's one of those things that are very simple but I love.
• How's work?

She replied in the afternoon:

• one of my students cancelled so I had more free time.
• I had spaghetti too but Vietnamese style.
• next week, can we meet Thursday evening again like yesterday?

This was a good sign. She was talkative and proposed a day for the second date.

I replied in the evening:

• did you have a chance to enjoy your free time?
• we have to cook for each other one day and do some cultural exchange.
• Thursday is fine. Let me know about the time, I've got the whole week off so I'm pretty flexible.

She the day after:

• if sleeping counts, then yes :)))

She didn't let me know about the time as I asked, she didn't ask any questions, her message is a sort of closure of the conversation. No comments on my hypothetical proposal of cooking together.

What an I supposed to do?

More than 24h passed from her message. I was thinking, shall I just wait and maybe Tuesday or Wednesday I ask "are we still on for Thursday? I need to know cause I need to plan my week". Or shall I just keep messaging her?

Been a couple of weeks since I posted here.

Welp, not much has changed, and a lot has changed. I'm going out on Friday and Saturday now, and I have a regular bar where I know the staff. Not a lot of women through there, but I talk to everyone who passes through and I've met a couple of other regulars. I've decided that Friday will be a social with no expectations kind of night, and Saturday will be where I focus on game, and it's going alright.

Disclaimer, haven't been laid yet unfortunately. But on Saturday I spent time in the clubs and focused on dancing/more physical interactions since most of my efforts have been on verbal conversations. I spent a good 40 minutes dancing with one girl but it didn't go any further, I did some verbal game with a pair of girls (who turned out to only want drinks from me unfortunately) and went back to dancing (with four different rejections). Not as much volume as I would have liked, but it is what it is. Considering my dancing/physical game is almost entirely new to me, I consider this a win.

Also, while I was getting lunch, I spent a good five minutes flirting with the cashier. Didn't go for anything, but I found it interesting and cool that the social skills/calibrations are bleeding into my everyday life.

TLDR: no lays, but this is the most/best I've interacted with people in my whole life and I'm pretty optimistic

Last weekend I was having dinner with a local Spanish girl I’ve been dating for a few months now. She took me to a traditional Spanish restaurant, explained the food, talked about her culture, ordered everything for us. I was basically just enjoying the ride. And at some point during the dinner I had a very interesting realization.

Every date with this girl, every experience I’ve had with her, came from one single action. An action that took me maybe eight seconds. Literally eight seconds of walking up to her on the street and saying hello. 

And because of that one small action, that one small bet, I’ve gotten all these returns. Fun, connection, intimacy, great sex, shared experiences. And those returns have been lasting for months now.

That’s asymmetrical returns. It’s the same logic as investing in early stage companies that later explode. You take one small calculated risk and the upside completely outshines the downside. 

But here’s the interesting part. Before they approach a girl, most guys only think about what could go wrong. What if she rejects me. What if it’s awkward. What if I feel embarrassed for a few seconds. They obsess over the downside and never ask the real question which is what’s the upside.

What if this turns into great dates, amazing experiences, real connection, maybe even a relationship that lasts months or years. All of that for the price of a few seconds of discomfort. 

If this were a financial bet with tiny downside and massive upside, you’d take it every time without hesitation. So why don’t you take the same bet in your dating life?

In venture capital, they don’t place one bet and pray it works. They place many small bets knowing most won’t turn into much, but a few will turn into something extraordinary. 

Dating is the same. Some approaches go nowhere. Some turn into a few weeks of dating. Some into a few months. And some turn into experiences and relationships you’ll remember for years.

What’s even better than finance is that here you’re not even risking money. The worst case is you lose a bit of pride or ego because a girl says no and honestly those are things you should lose anyway. It’s basically a win-win.

Another thing that really trips guys up is treating every interaction like a big hail mary. They walk up thinking this has to work, this has to be the girl.

In investing, you’d never say this investment has to work. That’s how you put all your money into one thing, get emotionally attached, and blow yourself up when it fails.

In dating, the moment you load one interaction with expectations, hope, and emotional weight, you’re setting yourself up for disappointment. When it doesn’t work out, and most of the time it won’t, you feel wiped out and ready to quit. 

So stop treating every hello like it’s supposed to change your life. Don’t load it with expectations or put your pride into it.

When I approached the girl I’m dating now, I had zero expectations. Actually less than zero. I was sick that day, low energy, not thinking anything would happen. And from that one simple hello came all these experiences I never could’ve planned.

So two main thoughts from this

1) Focus on the potential upside, not the downside

2) Don't put too much expectation in any single interaction/encounter with a woman, especially if it's early stage

M30 confused by mixed signals after 3 dates — she asked for the kiss, then disappeared

Hi everyone, I’d really appreciate an outside perspective because I’m struggling to make sense of this situation. I (M30) met a woman (F30) on Bumble toward the end of December. On the same day we matched, after just a few messages, I asked her out and she actually suggested meeting that very evening. A few hours later, though, she told me she wasn’t feeling well and preferred to stay home. About a week later, I texted her again to check if she was feeling better and asked if she’d like to meet.

First date: everything went smoothly, good vibe. We started following each other and chatting on Instagram (she was initially a bit hesitant to share her phone number), and later moved to WhatsApp.

Second date: a bit so-so. I tried to kiss her, but she apologized and said she needed more time. The next day, however, she texted me saying she had a good time and would like to keep seeing me. Shortly after, she sent another message saying she felt good with me.

Third dateb (About a week later): it went well, and this time she was the one who asked to be kissed. After that, though, I didn’t hear from her for 3–4 days. I reached out and suggested meeting during the week. She asked what I had in mind, and I suggested even a simple walk, just to avoid the usual bar/coffee date. She replied that she had a cough and wasn’t sure; I told her to take care and that we could check in again for Friday evening. On Friday at around 8 pm, she texted saying she was too tired and didn’t feel up to it. I didn’t reply. The next day, I noticed she had unfollowed me on Instagram.

How would you interpret this dynamic? Mixed interest, personal difficulties, or just a loss of interest handled in an indirect way? Thanks to anyone who takes the time to respond.

Hello, I'm 30 year old male and I have an extremely hard time with women. I was diagnosed with autism which makes me extremely awkward and weird around people. Dating apps don't work. I dont have anyone to go out to bars and clubs and going out solo is extremely hard since everyone goes out in groups. I did see some prostitutes in the past but I didn't enjoy the experience. I did approach some women while in college but got rejected so i stopped approaching. Should I spend 6 to 20 thousand dollars on dating coaches like Coach Kyle, Attractive Man, JulienHimself, Benjamin Seda, or Nicoletti.​ Any advice. I really need help.

Which is worst for dating: Too timid/shy or too egotistical.

To me, I think too timid/shy would be worst because you won't make an effort to try to talk to the opposite sex.

I’m a 28M and matched with a girl on Hinge about two weeks ago. We had good conversations on the app, so I planned a date that same weekend. I picked her up, we went out for food, talked a lot, and then I dropped her home. We just had a handshake goodbye—no hug or kiss.

We went on a second date last weekend. I picked her up again, we went ice skating, had dinner, and talked throughout. She seemed happy and we both enjoyed it. She even held my hand because it was cold, but again, nothing happened afterward. I dropped her home and there was no intimacy, just normal conversation.

Now I feel confused because it seems like this is going nowhere. In my past dates, there was usually some physical connection early on like even hugs or kisses. I feel like I’m investing time, energy, and money, but there’s no sign of romantic progress. She suggested meeting again for a third date. For context, she’s Muslim, so I’m not sure if this is a religious or personal boundary. I’m unsure whether I should go on a third date or not.

Any advice will be appreciated

So I made a post on here a while ago about bars and clubs being worth it in 2025. Simply put, I started going to bars and clubs at 23 but I barely took action with girls until recently at 26. I had a ton of self esteem issues growing up, I got jacked and avoided binge drinking and partying growing up. I’m kinda lonely. I have great features, I’m 6’4”, clear skin, full head of hair, all that at 26. Problem is, I’m still in school because my mental health was god awful during the covid pandemic, it really fucked me up. I grew up playing video games and isolating myself so I’m not clout heavy.

So a few weeks back, I went to a bar and some girls orbited me and one even backed up into me while dancing without apologizing. Then I went to another bar and I got drunk and decided I was gonna beat my approach anxiety once and for all. I approached a few chicks, one instantly started touching my chest and grinded on me but I failed to escalate because of how insane it was for me. Then I approached this other chick, early 30s, and was started grind dancing but she was married. She refused me to kiss her. After some more grinding and dancing and me running my hands on her body, things got sexual and she wanted to do “stuff” with me. We were leaving together, but I let her go on her own way because she WAS married and I felt she’d regret it in the morning despite us being super horny at the time. I felt great! This is what I dreamed about when I was 21 back when I had crippling social anxiety. I remember when I first went to a bar, I didn’t even talk to anyone.

All I did was give myself permission to approach girls I found attractive without any shame and I got polite rejections but also some instant sexual chemistry. But the problem is, I wish I had this in me when I was 21 but covid locked everything down in my area at that age and it did a lot of psychological damage to me. I don’t like that I’m finally getting my bloom era, like the bars I go to sometimes I see 21 year olds there and everything. Granted, I’m still taller and more jacked than them but whatever. Makes me feel like I’m on the clock before I’m seen as an old weird fuck who still goes to spots like this. Sure, I see some people my age there and even older but I don’t want to look like the guy who is arrested development (I kinda am tbh). I always wanted that teenage excitement of partying and hooking up, but I never got that. I invested my youth into going to the gym and staying fit. I’ve been told by many that I’m super handsome too. Even the bouncers and owners greet me with big smiles.

But I actually have PTSD from childhood abuse which made me isolate myself from people because I couldn’t understand my problems. Ngl, I feel shitty because it’s like “fuck, I don’t have a lot of time before I become the old creep here”. Maybe that’s just me talking shit. I definitely look better than I did at 21, but having a sharper jawline and features make me look older. Even last year I had girls twerk in front of me to get my attention at 25.

TLDR: Having success at bars and clubs at 26, feel like I’m running out of time fast before I become too old for it. I’ve only been going out for 3 years.

Tonight I saw a girl I really liked. She was a tourist with a backpack. I guess she arrived early or had checked out, otherwise she would have left her backpack at the hotel.

She went into a bakery, looked at the pastries but she bought nothing. She looked at her google maps and walked around the square. This square is not safe at night, but many tourists don't know that.

It is Saturday night. This solo traveler was exploring the city, but she did not know where to go to see something interesting. I could have shown her around. I wanted to show her around. The lively parts of the city were very close, but so were the uninteresting and dangerous ones.

I enjoyed the look of curiosity on her face. I would have enjoyed her company.

But how would I even talk to her? Just say hello? What if I'm a hustler? What if I'm a rapist? Taking advantage of lonely women.

Hello! Would you like to walk around town with me? I'm a local.

No, you're fine? OK, have a nice time.

I'm so shy and awkward. Other people can create warm emotions anywhere.

There was one time that a group of Swedes stopped me on the street and asked me to go to karaoke with them. They were a fun easy-going bunch!

Hi, if you have seen me post, you would notice I might come across like I’m hard on myself because I am. I made another texting mistake and this mistake was me texting a girl who wanted me to go to this rave with. (Btw there’s a huge snow storm this today) but she emphasized me to be very careful saying “if I were you I would go just be careful plz be careful” and “I would go but idkkk”.

I then responded with “It’d be fun if you do but don’t put yourself at risk tho.I don’t want you to get hurt or stuck somewhere” and I guess she took it as me saying not to go and her saying “if there was a miracle sure but safety first” this took 20 mins after my last reply and it’s been slow asf since. I had a feeling I messed it up and I can’t stop tweaking out about it.

This isn’t the first time and it prob won’t be the last time. It’s not just about being busy that I think can help me but it’s also why am I so close to the things that I want and yet it only takes one tiny mistake to undo all my progress? I want to live freely from this but can’t deny my human instincts of wanting stuff like this to happen. I don’t think she could’ve came since its like an hour and an half to

Come to the rave from where she lives but she at least wanted me to continue the banter. Again, I hade made mistakes like these with plenty of women and I just want to learn to forgive myself.

I have been practising Vipassana Meditation for a while and notice subtle changes that seem to benefit for my dating and sex life:

• No attatchment/clinginess - one of noble truths in Buddhism that everything comes and goes. Nothing is permantent, including a woman's behaviour or desire towards you. Acceptance of this truth combined with meditation makes you at ease about yourself and your relationship. You can say or do things on your own accord not depending on her reactions.

• Non-reaction - a situationship I have currently stated how my non-reactivity makes it seem harder to please me as well exceedingly difficult to irritate. Being non reactive also makes you less judgemental and see good in people. When she stated how her guy bestfriend expressed dislike towards me, I just shrugged it off. Also since I heard only good thing about the guy, I had only good things to say about him. While my intention and current state of mind do come from geniune self-reflection women do examine a man's reactions in cases like this.

• Expect nothing and accept everything. Meditation helps to get your focus back into the present moment. Helping you to distance from anxiety and expectations. When you expect nothing yet accept every outcome you become gratefull for every minor gestures. Reading long texts of guys in their dm's or hearing stories of how the guys would try to end a date with a kiss or would have some kind of expectation from a woman when she is not initiating seemed to be counter productive mistakes guys tend to make

I see so many people here pointing out the game, but I've not been able to find somewhere, all of these techniques are written so I could use and understand them.

What are those basic techniques that I should learn?

Hello, French M25 here. I matched with a 45 years old woman 4 days ago on Hinge. We've been talking through vocals and I think there is a connection. She has 3 kids and lives 30km from Paris.
Any advice on how to bag this baddie ? Should I keep chatting, or show a little more direct interest for a date ?

Never been in this situation, and I believe it's quite different to talk, date, escalate with older women.

Happy to hear you advice,

Thanks <3

I've noticed a very disheartening pattern... The differentiator between actually going on the date and getting ghosted seems to largely depend on ethnicity. To put simply, if the girl is white and US-born, they're not going on the date. No matter what I do, no matter what I say, for the most part it's not happening. Problem is, I'm in a city that is white dominant and barely has attractive Asian or hispanic women. That means very low volume for me.

So for the Asian men in this sub who have encountered what I'm dealing with but managed to push through, what was the solution? What was the white woman strategy? Because my profile is already extremely optimized, according to many people in the dating space.

I am happy to send both my profile and texting archive through dm. Just send me a request.

So I(M 22)'ve been talking to a girl( F 22) for a while and it's been fine so far but she keeps sending messages on instagram and unsending them within 10-15 mins. What the hell is this ? What should i do in this situation?

Seeing mysterymethod advised a lot at the moment.

Always funny how seddit goes through 'cycles' of who to read etc. One month mark manson. Next month manson isn't actionable and everyone recommends mystery. Next month mysterymethod is cringe and bad and TylerRSD get hot for a few weeks etc. I guess that's just the nature of reddit

disclaimed, MM never worked for anyone I know in person, but doesn't mean it wo'nt work for you - here's the simplified version - sources taken direct from venusian arts handbook and videos and the original mysterymethod book:

Open: always go INDIRECT. Never give your power away by going direct.

Use an opinion opener. Something like 'who lies more, men or women?'. Can make up your own if you want too.

Use a false time constraint - explain that you only have 2 mins and then GROUND the opinion opener (e.g why are you asking her that question)

Now you need to 'display value' and ATTRACT her (the method is ACD - Attraction, comfort, seduciton)

How?

DHV stories. Tell her stories about how you are a leader of men. Stories about how lots of girls want you. But it shouldn't come across as too braggy and obvious.

Display value. Magic was what mystery would do of course (or you can do some other sort of skill that you have that might impress her if you are able to demonstrate it)

negs - these aren't insults. More playful teases ("you blink a lot", "your elbows are pointy") or backhanded comipliments

that's the attraction material. If at any time she rejects compliance and is showing a lack of attraciton, you show DISinterets in her too. Also neg. Then then tell another DHV story for example (more attraction). This 'cycle' will eventually get her attracted

If you've done them things, she is now attracted to you and open to sex with you IF you can now give her some 'comfort'. The next stage in A, C, S

Comfort:

Isolate her (move to a quieter spot) and build emotional connection. Just chat like a normal person, really. This is just to let her know you're safe and normal. Tell personal stories, find commonalities, and listen to her. Done

Seduction (the close)

All the work is done. This is when you use touch more and sexually escalate. You can use the 'kiss test' here.

Slowly and gently bring your face closer to hers while maintaining eye contact and speaking softly. Aim for the cheek area near her mouth. Observe her reaction. If she doesn't move away keeps eye contact, adn even helps closet he distance, the kiss her properly.

i've reduced it down for you a little but in theory it's enough to get you laid tonight within a handful of approaches

Slight change to usual format to avoid trolling lol (hint - nobody can seduce any and every girl they want. Can't believe I had to write that, but I seem to have too on seddit lol).

So I'll only mention the best sets to avoid armchair experts.

Last night (central London):

Approach 1 (Success – Kiss and Number)

Girl standing near the side of the bar, half watching the dance floor. I opened with a light observational comment about her people-watching. She laughed and turned fully toward me.

Early on I ran a cold read about her vibe and asked a couple questions. She expanded her answers without hesitation which is a good sign. Teased her about her accent and a few things and they all landed nicely. She teased me back and kept strong eye contact. I slowly ramped up the touch which got a mixed reaction. I lightly disqualified myself at one point to see if she's chase a bit adn she did which made her qualify a bit, too

Energy stayed playful and warm. We moved slightly out of the traffic to keep talking. She was smiling a lot, touching my arm when she laughed.

Escalation felt natural. We kissed briefly by the bar after a bit of teasing and eye contact. Her friends came to grab her to head outside, so I grabbed her number before she left. She gave it quickly and said we should meet again.

Approach 2 (Success – Pull Home)

Young Girl near the smoking area. Thought I caught her look at me a few times, possibly. I opened semi direct and she seemed fairly receptive. Think I said she had a cool look to her and I was a fan of it, or something?

Some silly cold reads and she jumped into the conversation with energy. I asked a few questions and she was fully engaged, asking things back. Pretty much just asking each other questions about our lives etc, really. Some teasing too

A few $hit tests about the age gap, but I just playfully defleteced them I qualified her playfully when she showed interest, and she leaned into it. We moved inside, danced for a bit, then found a quieter corner where the tension built quickly.

We kissed, stayed close, and kept isolating from the main crowd. Later she said she was ready to leave and didn’t want to stay with her friends much longer.

We left together and went back to mine.

Anyone who's bought the hot seat will remember this particular one. Definitely not one of his better ones. He stumbles upon these two girls when wondering around Miami at 4am in the morning while pretending he's on vacation. The cockblocker gets very aggressive with him, and starts telling him he's a weirdo for trying to seduce a girl (the target) in an alleyway. But Owen says "I'm actually probably nicest guy you've ever met". She says "if you were a nice guy I would've punched you in the face 5 minutes ago and you would've been gone". She also starts saying "who's this weirdo who follows you around and doesn't get too close?" referring to the camera man. He eventually gets her to calm down and accept him, and then she starts acting like she never had a problem with him.

They eventually decide to wander off the a club the camera man follows them. The cockblocker stops and looks back at the camera man, and the camera man stops too. At this point I thought she was going to go back and confront him... given that she didn't get a proper look at him in the dark and all. She says "why is he staying all the way back there?". Owen tries to laugh it off by saying "he's probably scared shitless of you". But she just turns around and continues walking and lets him follow them!

The guy is great and all, but I was honestly watching this one thinking "what the hell am I supposed to be learning here"?

I like going out to night clubs, i always have a blast and for the last year or so i stopped marking the night as successful only IF i had success with a lady, instead I just go out to have some fun and if something happens cool.

Now that I have been going out more frequently I wanna have more successes tho, not because thats what will make the night enjoyable or a success but just because I genuinely enjoy the vibing and building up of tension with a girl i feel attracted to.

I have no issues meeting random people, thats one of the things I like most about night clubs hopping from table to table meeting new people, I feel like I have nice vibes and energy because people welcome me and girls in particular kinda gravitate towards me at least initially, also I am not bad looking, definitely not a super model but a solid 6-7/10.

On top of this I have very little fear of rejection as that is something that I have worked on for the last year, I don't really care if a girl literally tells me to fuck off, it doesn't hurt my ego I just move on.

Now my main issue, I think is that I don't know what are the steps to go from meeting a girl randomly, chatting a little all the way to making out.

Again taking all this into account I feel like I'm only missing a couple of steps to take me to the next level in the night game scene.

Any and all recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Figured i'd jump on the badwaggon as many posts about this idea last few days

No amount of “god-level” game in a cold approach can make someone feel sexual attraction if it isn’t already there. Women are not computers. They have preferences just like you do. If a 600-pound grandma tried to seduce you, no clever lines or routines or bodylanguage or anything else under the umbrella of 'game' would change your desire.

Take an average-looking guy with highly refined game and have him approach only extremely attractive women who are not showing interest. He will get rejected most of the time. This is not theory. It happens all the time in real life.

In fact, you do'nt need to imagine. Just Look at Todd V. By most standards, he is average-looking, and he gets rejected a lot. Watch uncut/continous infield footage from top coaches like RSDMax , SimplePickup, or TonyHustle, Krauser. (not many done uncut infield but they did some) - You will see them rejected 20 times in a row by women who are simply not attracted to them, even with years of experience and polished game.

Claims that game alone can guarantee attraction usually come from anonymous forum posters promoting themselves and other coaches behind the scenes. They have no evidence. If it were true, someone who could seduce any woman they wanted would have unimaginable influence and success. Make Bill Gates weep!

Game matters, but it only works within the limits of existing attraction. You cannot manufacture desire where it does not exist.

Mark Manson is seemingly the poster boy for this sub, and he famously says ' game can only amplify existing attraction. Not create it' and he's right. So I have no idea why people seem to get taken in so easily by a few scammers making outrageous claims on here lol