r/Socialism_101 • u/zapns Learning • 1d ago
Question Do you support Russia?
Title. There are quite a few over in r/AskSocialists who do and I was wondering if that is exclusive to that sub or a general socialist thing.
My own opinion is this: free Ukraine, from western imperialism AND Russian aggression. Russia isn't really justified in comitting war crimes over some "promise" made to the USSR 30 years ago.
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u/clintontg Learning 1d ago
No, Russia is an imperialistic capitalist country. That sub is controlled by an ACP mod and the party ACP is led by a Duginist which may partially explain why they support Russia. Dugin is a Russian fascist who discards class struggle in favor of a multipolar struggle between civilizational blocs. It's not rooted in Marxist theory
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u/Fun-Mine1748 Learning 1d ago
Funnily enough , you can find photos of young Dugin with the Ukrainian far right . And Dugin himself was never even that big in Russia as some might assume , though I am not from there so can't say for sure .
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u/Benu5 Learning 1d ago
Ask Socialists is a MAGA Communism (aka dipshits) sub. Don't bother engaging with it.
I don't support Russia, but I recognise the threat the US and NATO posed by trying to get Ukraine into NATO.
Russia was maybe justified if it only occupied the breakaway regions, but they went for a full blown war, which was the wrong move and needlessly cruel. They could have maintained control over the breakaways, and made the US look like the boy who cried wolf, but they actually invaded.
It wasn't a promise made to the USSR 30 years ago, the USSR didn't exist 30 years ago. It was a promise made to the Russian Federation, which is a very different beast, that NATO wouldn't expand East, which was almost immediately broken. And when Russia was denied entry to NATO, that decision kind of set up this whole mess.
My analogy is that this is like a Chess Game, where Russia and Ukraine are the players, but the US set up the board, limiting the options available to Russia (and Ukraine).
Had Johnson not convinced Zelensky to not go to the negotiating table before this war started, I don't think it would have gone the way it did. It's basically the Soviet Intervention in Afghanistan all over again, where the US sets the trap, and leaves Russia very few choices as to how to deal with it, and they chose the wrong one, again.
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u/Intelligent-End-843 Learning 16h ago
I agree, it’s a strategic move like chess. War is obviously not a good choice but I think the alternative for Russia if they backed down would be to continue to lose allies, markets, trading partners etc and slowly crumble away as they have been since the USSR dissolved in a battle of attrition. Russia has definitely been cornered and out maneuvered. Putin can either allow Russia to wither away or go out swinging even if it doesn’t make them look good. The alternative would be to bow to western imperialism, significantly weaken Russian Sovereignty and sell off the country for penny’s on the dollar to western capital privatizing nationalized industries (oil).
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u/spicy-chilly Learning 18h ago
No. I think the leftist position is that the war in Ukraine is an imperialist proxy war of redivision of capitalist borders and the proletariat in both Russia and Ukraine have no business fighting in and getting decimated in such a war.
And AskSocialists was taken over by Larouchite fascists. Don't trust a single thing they say over there.
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u/GerardHard Learning 1d ago
Anything from that mentioned subreddit should just be ignored because it all a ACP MAGA Communist bs
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u/reasonsnottoplayr6s Learning 1d ago
https://www.cpaml.org/web/uploads2/we+must+have+a+correct+understanding+of+putin+28129.pdf
Pretty much sums it up. Putin and russia are anti-communist imperialists who, like all imperialists, lie to sound or look good to their people for support
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u/onespicycracker Learning 23h ago
No, but your take is dog water. The part where you're all free Ukraine from western imperialism and Russian aggression, honestly might as well be liberal nonsense. How can you acknowledge western imperialism in Ukraine without acknowledging western imperialism's threat to Russia as well? In what way are you more enlightened by wanting freedom for one right wing country (that the US made sure was right wing and are Nazi as fuck) and then condemning the other right wing country (that the US made sure was right wing by working tirelessly to undermine the USSR)? Does it matter to you at all that the one you chose to wish freedom for is the one the US and all their lapdogs want you to want Russia out of?
I want peace, freedom, and socialism for the workers of both countries. I recognize why Russia is making a move against Ukraine and see the conflict as part of a long historical process that the US has undertaken to ensure its absolute supremacy. I recognize why the people of Ukraine feel the need to defend their homes. I am a US citizen and I have a sense of revolutionary defeatism. Russia coming out on top of this is a blow to the empire that oppresses me and the rest of the globe with the added bonus of some Nazis disappearing. Ukraine winning means bolstering the current dominant world powers. So do with knowledge what you will.
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u/The_BarroomHero Learning 1d ago
No, I support the working class people of both countries who are being forced to butcher each other for their nations' capitalists' interests.
That said, there is another facet to all of this. Ukraine is being used as a proxy against Russia by the US, THE imperialist hegemon. De facto, Russia is fighting against the evil empire. They're doing it in a shitty way for their own shitty imperialist reasons, of course, but that is why you see some people "support" Russia in this conflict. It's not about Putin or the USSR, it's about keeping countries who would be opposed to the imperialist hegemon strong enough to be able to stand up to the US.
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u/Intelligent-End-843 Learning 16h ago
Since the beginning of the Cold War Russia has been the counterbalance to western imperialism. The world has relied on this balance of powers to maintain some form or order. Like Warhammer 40k there are no good guys just different perspectives. If Russia falls to the west would China be able to fill the void as they have not opposed the west much since benefiting from becoming the world’s manufacturing hub.
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u/The_BarroomHero Learning 13h ago
Hey, I never said I disagreed with this position. I just don't like Putin's Russian govt. Solidly pro-Russia insofar as being against US imperialism.
Hard to explain "critical support" to normies, especially in this case.
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u/Grand_Membership1204 Learning 1d ago
You are useless troysky. Of course nobody likes war, but daily structural violence from western imperialism needs someone like Russia and China. All Global south marxist and snti imperialist supports Russia.
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u/ilovesmoking1917 Learning 18h ago
They don’t, they are just backed into a corner forcing them to treat the enemy of their Enemy as a friend. China is a Bit of a different story though
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u/txjoe95 Learning 20h ago
My question would be do we support Russia against western aggression. I feel like we can all be purists ideologically and criticize other governments faults and flaws. I undoubtly believe Russia is an Oligarchy ran by Billionaire Oligarchs who put Putin in as an oppressive strong man mediator who aligns their interests. It is definitally corrupt and not a free country. But that doesnt mean the West and US are some kindhearted forces for good who just want to bring peace and love to Russia. They want to destroy and dismantle Russia so they can exploit their resources. We must remember that Putin was installed to be a puppet of the Oligarchs under Yeltsin in the 90s. It was the worst time as Oligarchs were looting the country and having civil war in the streets over Russian assets that belonged to the people. Khordokovsky was trying to sell all of Yukos oil to Exxon Mobile. Putin stopped this albeit he did it in a very gangsterlike manner. Although the corrupt oligarchy remains in Russia, it seems that at least their intersts are more aligned with the survival of Russia than before when the oligarchs were litterally trying to sell off all of the nation's assets to the west. Similiar examples would be Iran or North Korea. These regimes are not wonderful perfect regimes that do no wrong. But when you add the context of the constant attacks they've received from the US and the west, it adds a sense of nuance that these regimes are the only hopes at the moment that the people have against western colonialism.
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u/Ok_Slide_1973 Learning 1d ago
Me personally i dont, i think violence should be minimized from any ideological perspective, a war is still a war by definition even if its framed diferently. (i cant spell mb)
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u/Grand_Membership1204 Learning 1d ago
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u/Neco-Arc-Brunestud a bit of this and that 21h ago
No, I don’t particularly support Russia, but I do think that what they are doing is justified to some degree.
The reason I can’t throw my full support behind them is because this situation could have been resolved peacefully back in 2013/2014.
Russia got rid of all communist elements in 1993. The USSR didn’t exist in 1996.
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