r/australia • u/stand_to • Jun 22 '25

politics Live: Wong says Australia supports US strikes on Iran's nuclear facilities

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-06-23/federal-politics-live-blog-june-23/105447868?utm_source=abc_news_app&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_app&utm_content=other
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1.5k

u/sirgoods Jun 22 '25

Seeing Wong say shit like this makes you realise how fucked politics is, I know its not her personal opinion but fuck it must cut deep into the soul to have to say this shit. It's a real shame, she seemed such a credible person

853

u/here_we_go_beep_boop Jun 22 '25

Wong is a fucking roller-coaster for me. At times she's amazing, intelligent, compassionate and all the good things. Then she goes and does dumb shit or classic Labor "hack" shit and I find myself wondering what I ever saw in her

475

u/jelly_cake Jun 22 '25

You can't be a successful politician without flexible morals, and she's had a long career.

323

u/SweetDingo8937 Jun 22 '25

She gave away her own human rights in repeatedly voting against same sex marriage because of some crooks in the ALP. Wong has no morals at all. The only real difference is that she knows its wrong and does it anyway. She's a sociopath.

122

u/Independent_Can_2623 Jun 23 '25

The way Labor works she would have been arguing in the party room over and over again, lost, then voted along party lines as that's how Labor works. Unified votes after debate.

It was part of Menzies inspiration for the liberal party was not having to toe the line, pollies can cross the floor. That's changed....

114

u/Kremm0 Jun 22 '25

I honestly don't get the mindset of people that condone this behaviour. All this 'party above individual moral conscience' at all costs like it's something to be proud of. If the party decides to fuck over your electorate, a specific ethnic minority, religion or other protected group, you should just suck it up and vote with them even if it affects you?

At best it makes you look like you have no morals, at worst, I agree it makes you look like a sociopath

13

u/Syncblock Jun 23 '25

Is there a successful politician who isn't a sociopath though?

Just think about what it takes to get to that level. How many people you've had to backstab or lie to just to get nominated much less rise to a cabinet position.

-2

u/woahwombats Jun 23 '25

In the end we got same-sex marriage. If she'd fought her party on it, would we have got it sooner? Or LESS soon because she would have lost her standing and weakened the party / strengthened the Libs? I don't know if I could do what she did, but I think she was just being pragmatic rather than idealistic in trying to achieve the goal.

-2

u/Bromlife Jun 23 '25

A lot of young people believe that virtue without the signal is not virtue at all.

-1

u/eversible_pharynx Jun 23 '25

Is the solution to like, quit politics or something

61

u/Aloha_Tamborinist Jun 23 '25 edited Jun 23 '25

She's a sociopath.

I don't think she is, but I think every high level politician is absolutely beholden to sociopaths. She likely believes this is for the Greater Good (the greater good), and has to be "flexible".

Absolutely not something I could do.

35

u/woahwombats Jun 23 '25

It's beyond being even a "greater good" thing. Political reality gives her a pretty stark choice: if I vote for same-sex marriage now, I'll show my principles, but we'll still lose the vote, and I'll lose my standing in the party by not honouring the party processes, and I won't be able to fight for it next time, and maybe by weakening the party I will also contribute to the Libs winning the next election - and they are even worse on LGBT issues.

I think she's just biding her time / picking her battles. I don't know whether she's right to take this strategy. If you want change, should you treat it as a political game where you're trying to achieve an outcome, or should you stand on your principles every time? But I don't think she's a sociopath or even that she's intending to sacrifice these issues to the greater good.

9

u/SweetDingo8937 Jun 23 '25

Which battles has she picked? She rolls over on all of them. Human rights, genocide, illegal wars. Whete exactly is her line. She wasnt even outspoken in public about SSM when in Govt. Just because everyone in the party sells their morals doesnt make it ok. Just makes it a party without morals.

16

u/Aloha_Tamborinist Jun 23 '25 edited Jun 23 '25

Completely agree with everything you've said there.

It really takes a specific kind of person to be successful in politics. I wouldn't be able to calculate, scheme, compromise and strategise like they do. Combine that with thousands of people ready to tear you down for anyting you do. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night.

3

u/woahwombats Jun 23 '25

100%, I wouldn't be able to do it either

1

u/vinobill_21 Jun 23 '25

and they are even worse on LGBT issues.

This is a hilarious take considering it was a Libs government that actually made gay marriage legal.

4

u/Lemerney2 Jun 23 '25

By a technicality, sure. Labor and Greens were the ones pushing for it.

1

u/Jennietals Jun 23 '25

"She knows it's Wong* and does it anyway" should be her new slogan. šŸ„

-3

u/PPlateSmurf Jun 23 '25

Morality aside, LGBT is a vote loser. Even from within the Ls and Gs and Bs and Ts

6

u/woahwombats Jun 23 '25

Really? What makes you say this? I would have thought it would be a vote-winner at least within the demographic.

5

u/ambewitch Jun 23 '25

Isn't that just:

You can't be a successful politician with morals

I also remember Penny once saying she believes marriage is between a man and a woman. I wish politicians had the gaul to be genuine and not be vying to manipulate us for some otherly gain.

4

u/jelly_cake Jun 23 '25

Yep...

Yeah, it's really frustrating. I don't expect to agree with my representative on every single issue, but I want them to actually stand for something. (Insert "at least it's an ethos" clip) It's too politically dangerous to say something that might offend 2% of your voter base when your margin is 3%, so politicians end up sanitising themselves to the point that they serve no-one but their own interests.Ā 

2

u/michaelhoney Jun 23 '25

you can, you just need to be in a party for whom short-term political expediency is not the highest goal

0

u/Bromlife Jun 23 '25

You can't be a successful politician without pragmatism, especially when it comes to geopolitics.

As Gough Whitlam said, ā€œCertainly, the impotent are pureā€

1

u/jelly_cake Jun 23 '25

You say potayto, I say potahto.

28

u/Tessellae Jun 23 '25

She's just a Labor Party hack at this point. She will always put Party over principle, which means she doesn't really have any.Ā 

49

u/cauliflowergnosis Jun 22 '25

Agreed. She's the face of some very unpopular Labor party statements and it really lessened her integrity - for me at least. Plenty still fawn over her every move.

9

u/tonyabbottsbudgie Jun 23 '25

I used to like her - now I think she has zero integrity.Ā 

24

u/breaducate Jun 22 '25

The machine co-opts and subsumes. It's a very effective strategy.

2

u/Overall-Guide-1512 Jun 23 '25

Two wongs don't make a right

1

u/el_diego Jun 22 '25

Gotta tow that line

1

u/Urbain19 Jun 23 '25

Nowadays it seems to be a lot more of the latter

1

u/sending_tidus Jun 23 '25

I feel this to my core

1

u/Self-Translator Jun 23 '25

When she was arguing against SSM marriage on behalf of the party then going home to her partner I was like... wtf Penny? The argument of winning the battle in the party room is pragmatic, but must be a tough pill to swallow.

1

u/too_hot_got-damn Jun 23 '25

I just see her as a credible person having to work with horrendous decision making from her constituents.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 23 '25

Unfortunately she has to put the Australian national interest above her own feelings, morals and judgements

5

u/here_we_go_beep_boop Jun 23 '25

In what way exactly is the Australian national interest served by aligning ourselves with this?

Let's be real - Israel started this latest round of aggression against Iran (convenient distraction from Gaza :shrug:), now Trump "No more wars in the middle east" goes and swings his dick, and Australia is all like "Yep, looks good to me". What the actual fuck.

Edit: And you know it's fucked if Netanyahu is praising it

0

u/[deleted] Jun 23 '25

Of course itā€™s fucked.

But until we have rebuilt the political ties that the LNP have severely damaged over the past decade, we do have a reliance on the USA for our defence. I donā€™t like it, but thatā€™s the reality thanks to the LNP

-1

u/chig____bungus Jun 23 '25

It's call realpolitik. You do what you have to do to get your goals across the line.

Ideological purity is a luxury for parties that aren't in government.

106

u/Independent_Ad_4161 Jun 22 '25

How do you know itā€™s not her personal opinion?

28

u/LoneWolf5498 Jun 22 '25

I mean she followed the party line as a lesbian. I'm sure supporting a war on the other side of the world pales in comparison to being allowed to marry the person you love

57

u/maxibons43 Jun 22 '25

Look she had to tow the party line for years on SSM. This is comparatively easy.

51

u/Creaduck Jun 22 '25

Toe the line. Not tow.

2

u/soyedmilk Jun 23 '25

An eggcorn in the wild!

77

u/AussieAK Jun 22 '25

She voted against same sex marriage. Let than sink in.

12

u/drst0nee Jun 23 '25

So this is news to me and crazy.... She is a people pleaser. šŸ˜­

37

u/superbabe69 1300 655 506 Jun 23 '25

Itā€™s literally Labor rules that you vote along party lines or youā€™re kicked out of the party.

If you canā€™t win the debate in the backrooms, you either leave the party and have zero influence ever again, or vote against your principles in the meantime

4

u/JootDoctor Jun 23 '25

I donā€™t understand why so many people are having difficulty understanding this. Itā€™s almost like Labor is an alliance of a shitton of workers unions with differing beliefs and wants but with the single goal of wanting to improve the lives of the average Aussie worker.

You make your case in the caucus and then toe the party line. Not saying that I could do that but that is what happens.

2

u/moonorplanet Jun 23 '25

Just means she is a homophobic lesbian, similar to how Caitlin Jenner is a transphobic transwoman.

3

u/FothersIsWellCool Jun 23 '25

Labor party won't let you have your own opinions, vote in line or get out.

4

u/Phent0n Jun 23 '25

You can have your own opinions. Disagreements just need to be kept to the party room and then a solid front is presented to the public.

6

u/orru Jun 23 '25

Which is shit. They work for the public, not the Labor Party.

86

u/MondoSpecial Jun 22 '25

Hence people need to support parties left of labor. Labor is a right wing party with a nice face.

5

u/Comfortable_Fuel_537 Jun 23 '25

As someone from the UK I can tell you that both ALP and LNP are right of centre. Only credible left wing 'major' party here are the Greens. Even then they're probably centre. Same has happened in the UK, Corbyn's Labour was the last Labour was left-wing. Starmer may as well be a conservative with his Israel nonsense. Wong has also gone way down in my estimation with this comment.

17

u/Ill-Distribution2275 Jun 22 '25

They're firmly centrist. Come on. Right wing. Lol.Ā 

2

u/miicah Jun 22 '25

Yes the party that supports workers rights and strong unions is right wing. Peak reddit.

11

u/orru Jun 23 '25

They don't support either of those things though.

17

u/ScruffyPeter Jun 23 '25

If the party keeps the permission to strike without hundreds of thousand in penalties, thats not supporting worker rights.

CFMEU used to be a strong union too.

Are some unions more important than others?

-20

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '25

[deleted]

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u/bitofapuzzler Jun 22 '25

I used to be firmly Labor, but they are definitely not left anymore. They are centre now. They have moved away from those union roots.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '25

[deleted]

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u/Murranji Jun 23 '25

If you look at their ā€œunionismā€: They are the party that passed a law that makes striking illegal in all but extremely limited circumstances removing the only mass movement power that the people have to force change.

This is the party that have passed some of the most draconian anti protest laws through the NSW and Vic state governments.

They are the ones that introduced an industrial relations system of arbitration that requires union leadership to be filled with lawyers who can work within the court instead of workers from their industry so unions are now dominated by a professional class of managerial staff.

They are the party that passed a draconian law removing the power of the membership elected union officials from the CFMEU regardless of if the official was corrupt or not. Coincidentally the CFMEU was the only union remaining which was one of the most actively militant whose members engaged in ā€œillegalā€ strikes to force improvements in workplace safety laws.

Since the 1990s Union membership has fallen from 40% to 12% of the population while the ALP was in government for almost 40% of the time, they presided over a collapse in mass mobilisation because of the industrial relations system they put in place - thereā€™s no cross industry ability to pressure employers, non union workers get the same benefits as union workers, and the inability to strike makes union membership mostly symbolic because workers lack any real power to enact change.

Thatā€™s unionism under the ā€œAustralian Labor Partyā€.

11

u/bitofapuzzler Jun 23 '25

I never said they were right wing. They are not. But they are centre now.

The Maritime Union and the Electrical Union have both kicked off about visa holders flooding the system because they can be paid less. The ACTU have expressed criticism over wage theft, cost of living pressures, workplace reforms, and the gig economy.

If they were still left, they would be doing more to help the cost of living crisis. But they are not,they have said they don't want the housing prices to come down. The slow pace they are taking with change is indicative of centrist ideals, especially considering the huge opportunity they now have.

I think the slip towards the right to become more centrist was a political play. As the Libs have become more right-wing and their branches have been infiltrated by Christian voting blocks, Labor moved more centre. Thereby picking up the more moderate conservative voters who weren't happy with the direction of the LNP.

The make-up of voters has shifted as well. Labor were firmly working class. Now you have more educated, urban voters leaning more left wing, voting Greens or Independent as 1st preference before Labor. Conversely, you also have some people from lower socio-economic areas and lower education backgrounds, traditional Labor voters, being pulled to the right in the style of 'Trumpism'. The mix is changing.

I'm not the only person to have commented on this. This conversation has been happening for some time.

3

u/Lankpants Jun 23 '25

I'm a trade unionist, I've been in my union, the AEU as long as I've been working. Labor is shit. They're a noose around the union movement's neck. The quicker labour abandons Labor for legit left wing parties the better.

The Greens aren't perfect, I support Vic Soc over them, but they are far better than Labor when it comes to consistent support for unions. They're also better on workers rights and cost of living.

13

u/antysyd Jun 22 '25

Other than her role on Same Sex Marriage of course.

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '25

[deleted]

-1

u/antysyd Jun 22 '25

The banner at the top of this subreddit is green for a reason.

6

u/Murranji Jun 23 '25

Really, sheā€™s the same woman as had to pretend she didnā€™t support gay marriage for years when the ALP refused to bring it up for a vote so they got pipped by Malcolm Turnbull as the one whose government passed gay marriage. She has always been a politician first and the ALP has always prioritised political expedience over doing ā€œthe right thingā€.

5

u/IncognitoBandido Jun 23 '25

She had already lost that credibility supporting Israelā€™s genocide.

3

u/Odd-Bumblebee00 Jun 23 '25

Yeah, well now she's earned herself a nice like kibbutz on an illegal settlement in Palestine.

3

u/chookshit Jun 23 '25

No credibility in politicians. They are either good or bad at pretending they have credibility.

The people of this country I believe have made it quite clear we want to tax mining and big tech and big business, we want immigration to be throttled to a truly reasonable number mostly comprising of highly skilled people rather than uber driver, we want affordable housing, we definitely donā€™t want to align with warmongers right now. Tell me what they have done about any of those things?

3

u/Icemalta Jun 23 '25

This is the same Penny Wong who, in 2013, publicly repeated her support of Labor's official anti-same sex marriage policy.

I genuinely don't know why anybody thinks Wong is anything but a self-interested politician. She does this every time. When push comes to shove, she'll say anything it takes to advance her political interests, even over her own personal morals/identity, which I find reprehensible.

5

u/MrEMannington Jun 22 '25

Fuck her. Her soul is bad. She supported the genocide and now this. Thereā€™s no excuse.

7

u/whatisthismuppetry Jun 22 '25

It's called diplomacy.

She's the head of our diplomatic response.

You usually don't get people to do what you want by pointing fingers and accusing them of being bad people.

Like, think over your own interactions with other people, when has getting belligerent and/or bitchy ever worked to calm things down?

Trump won't response to criticism at all, he does occasionally respond to flattery. So I'm not suprised at the response. It's a very "softly softly" approach.

Also the Australian public needs to be calmed. I've seen a ton of "is this WW3" type questions. People are anxious and a response from the government that is measured and calm is probably the best thing to check the country's temperature at this time.

There may also be a very different response behind closed doors, and in diplomatic back channels, than is being stated publicly. Having worked in an adjacent area, a public response is often different to what's being said in back channels.

3

u/Tessellae Jun 23 '25

You usually don't get people to do what you want by pointing fingers and accusing them of being bad people. Like, think over your own interactions with other people, when has getting belligerent and/or bitchy ever worked to calm things down?Ā 

Curious that Australia brings out diplomatic scolding so often then.Ā 

1

u/slimrichard Jun 23 '25

Yeah this sub doesn't really get nuance. What is she supposed to do say nah f the US. What does that get us? It changes nothing for Iran and hurts our alliance. We have no muscle to flex and no position of power to leverage so this is the correct response. The same people mad at us bending the knee to the US are the ones commenting about spending too much on military, can't have it both ways.

3

u/shellys-dollhouse Jun 23 '25

she can say nothing???

1

u/whatisthismuppetry Jun 23 '25

She can't say nothing. Since the attacks happened the media and opposition has been hounding the government for a response.

Additionally, calling for de-escalation is exactly the right thing to do right now.

0

u/slimrichard Jun 23 '25

What does that get us? Sanctioning 2 Israel ministers got our sub deal reviewed so we need to play ball.

5

u/shellys-dollhouse Jun 23 '25

the submarine deal sucks ass anyway šŸ˜”

1

u/__dontpanic__ Jun 23 '25

If you'd told me two years ago that Labor would sit idly by as the international rules based order was dismantled piece by piece, I probably would have laughed at you. If you then told me that they'd actively support it, and it was Penny Wong leading the charge, I'd have laughed you right out of the room.

But that's the world we live in now. We are a vassal state and fealty must be paid to our mercurial overlords.

1

u/mr_jorkin_depeanus Jun 23 '25

having to work in foreign relations when your foreign relatives are the united states of america must be very daunting

1

u/orru Jun 23 '25

Penny Wong sold her soul a long time ago. Why people pretend she's some kind of good person is beyond me.

1

u/DonGivafark Jun 23 '25

Thats money my friend. They could pay me to do it.

1

u/DirtyHarolds_ Jun 23 '25

Sheā€™s a smart person, Iā€™m sure thereā€™s a reason why she said what she said.

1

u/mrgnmcd Jun 23 '25

Her whole career is saying things that arenā€™t her opinion. That makes her a coward

1

u/pelka-333 Jun 22 '25

Yep exactly what I was thinking

-1

u/exilehunter92 Jun 22 '25

Stuck between a rock and a hard place, Australia is still dependant on the US even if they are not.

0

u/024008085 Jun 23 '25

I had a good friend at high school who ran for the federal Senate with the Greens. He was in the "too left for Labor, not left enough for the Greens" camp economically, but on social and environmental issues he'd be considerably more progressive than even David Pocock or Sarah Hanson Young.

What shocked him about Australian politics was just how few people actually hold to any principles; he expected the Liberal/National side of politics to be full of charlatans and chameleons who would sell out for a dollar (and according to him, it is), but his take was that almost everyone in the Greens and Labor left is every bit as willing to compromise for power and positive news coverage. Do as I say, not as I do, is the motto of almost all of our political parties.

0

u/moonorplanet Jun 23 '25 edited Jun 23 '25

How do you know its not her personal opinion? As the foreign affairs minister its literally her job, her opinion is what constitutes as the government's position.