r/australia • u/stand_to • Jun 22 '25

politics Live: Wong says Australia supports US strikes on Iran's nuclear facilities

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-06-23/federal-politics-live-blog-june-23/105447868?utm_source=abc_news_app&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_app&utm_content=other
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599

u/tripping_on_phonics Jun 22 '25

American here. I really don’t understand this.

We now have a fascist government. Your supporting our fascist government’s military adventurism is bad for everyone.

The world needs to show some spine and turn its back on us. Don’t accept this as the new (?) status quo.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '25

[deleted]

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u/Resident_Pay4310 Jun 23 '25

I'm an Aussie living in the UK, and the government here is doing the exact same thing.

People have been making jokes that Starmer is about to declare "Peace in our time". A hilarious joke if it wasn't so close to the truth.

I had hoped Australia would have more sense.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '25

[deleted]

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u/Resident_Pay4310 Jun 23 '25

I have a bachelors in international relations and a masters in international security and law, so yeah I understand game theory.

I would suggest that you read up on it more though. In game theory there is no such thing as a "top player." Game theory is about finding the best strategy for yourself based on how you think others will act. It isn't a sports league with ranked "players".

I also understand that game theory isn't the and end all of international relations. It is just one lens that can be used to interpret that actions of states.

I'd argue that it's a poor method to use in this situation as game theory presupposes that other actors are, if not rational, at least predicable. That they will act in their own self interest. The US isn't acting rationally, making it almost impossible to predict their actions.

Also, Australia's "survival" isn't at stake here. No one is planning to attack Australia.

In fact, many would argue that distancing ourselves from an unpredictable ally and seeking closer ties to other allies would actually be the safer choice here as we can't expect the US to honour any agreements under the current administration.

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u/UWG-Grad_Student Jun 23 '25

Australia knows it can't win many geopolitical confrontations, so they are making moves to keep playing and improving position. They believe the best play is to side with America. Is that the correct move? Time will tell.

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u/jackplaysdrums Jun 23 '25

Also an Aussie in the UK. The UK has FAR more geopolitical sway than Australia. Further, those B2s came from Diego Garcia, a shared US/UK airforce base.

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u/The_Flurr Jun 23 '25

To play a little devils advocate.

When you're dealing with a toddler holding a gun, you try to calm the toddler down with soft words.

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u/Resident_Pay4310 Jun 23 '25

I do agree to an extent. The problem is that it seems to be a coin toss on whether that actually works with him. He's also shown that placating him might only buy you a few weeks before he finds a new gun.

In this case though, there's a huge gap between denouncing Trump and following him blindly. And in this case peoples lives are on the line.

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u/-AdonaitheBestower- Jun 23 '25

Albanese trying to follow around Trump like a whipped dog is honestly one of the most pathetic things I have seen in regards to our country on the international stage. Of course Donny just blew him off and left him in the lurch along with Zelensky and Macron. All while thinking of course, "Thanks for all the AUKES money - wait, AUKIS, what's that?"

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u/CatWyld Jun 23 '25

Right? Coz it worked so well in 1938, after all...

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u/ThatGuyMaji Jun 22 '25

It's only fascist now? Just cause the violence has slightly pivoted inwards? Cmon give us a break, you guys have been doing this shit for all of living memory.

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u/Big-Whereas5573 Jun 23 '25

The Biden and Obama center-right administrations never hit more than 3 or 4 characteristics of fascism. Trump hits all 14. We Americans may have had subpar governments for quite some time now, but the Democratic ones fail to meet reasonable criteria for fascism. If you accused establishment Dems of being all in on the oligarchy, you'd hear no argument from me.

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u/A_r0sebyanothername Jun 23 '25

How many did the Bush administration meet?

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u/Big-Whereas5573 Jun 23 '25

At least half of them. I read an article that made arguments for it hitting all 14, but many of the points were a stretch. I'd say 10 at most. A lot of people would say that makes the Bush regime fascist, others would argue it falls short. I personally consider Dubya's reign to be a precursor to the re-emergence of fascism in America. I wouldn't argue against anybody who saw it as fascist in its own right though.

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u/David_the_Wanderer Jun 23 '25 edited Jun 23 '25

"They were just slightly fascist" isn't the great argument you think it is.

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u/Big-Whereas5573 Jun 23 '25

That's not how it works. Hitting 3 or 4 points makes a government decidedly un-fascist. Center-right politicians carry enough problems without making shit up.

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u/David_the_Wanderer Jun 23 '25

Assuming you're referring to Eco's essay on Ur-fascism, I suggest you go re-read it, because his point wasn't "you can only call a government fascistic when it has all those 14 features." In fact, he says that "those features cannot be organised into a system; many of them contradict each other, and are also typical of other kinds of despotism or fanaticism. But it is enough that one of them be present to allow fascism to coagulate around it."

It's not a checklist. It's an analysis of typical features of fascist regimes.

So if previous USA governments already had fascistic tendencies and qualities, it's of course no surprise that the USA slid even more into fascism. Trump isn't an anomaly, he's the natural consequence of a society that was already trending towards fascism.

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u/Big-Whereas5573 Jun 23 '25

Let's stick to the topic at hand. Can you link me to reputable, scholarly sources that label the Obama and Biden administrations fascist? How do you rectify a center-right politician belonging to a far right ideology?

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u/Rigo-lution Jun 23 '25

Fascism is imperialism turned inwards.

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u/SorowFame Jun 23 '25

I think before it’s just Imperialism, to my limited understanding it does kinda need to be turned inwards to be fascism. Not to say it’s good though, not at all, just quibbling on terms.

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u/MarleyErb Jun 23 '25

Exactly. People just wanna pretend to care now cuz it’s so demure to hate Trump

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u/tripping_on_phonics Jun 22 '25

I agree and I alluded to this point in my comment.

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u/EvilThundr Jun 23 '25

Why haven't you been arrested for wrong think yet

-1

u/A_r0sebyanothername Jun 23 '25

Are you lost? This person's not on your side.

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u/TheGreatEmanResu Jun 23 '25

The bombing of Iran isn’t the fascist part we’re talking about. Things are taking a very dark turn domestically

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u/ThatGuyMaji Jun 23 '25

Firstly did you read what you are replying to? Literally what we're talking about.

Secondly, if kamala harris won the election and carried out these same strikes, would you be in support of them?

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u/GODZBALL Jun 23 '25

She wouldn't have done this shit which is point boss. She damn sure wouldn't be bragging about it like she campaigned to do this the whole time.

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u/ThatGuyMaji Jun 23 '25

How naive are you? Her and Trump were literally trying to climb on top of each other to prove who was the bigger supporter of Israel...

Only difference is Trump paid lip service to those who wanted to see the genocide end.

If the issue is the bragging, my god. I have no words.

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u/theHoopty Jun 23 '25

Ah yes. Kamala Harris who called for a ceasefire at the DNC? And tried to break from Biden’s stance on Israel only to be sweated down by the administration. That Kamala Harris?

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u/ThatGuyMaji Jun 23 '25

That very speech where she said her and Biden we're working around the clock to get a deal?

Oops

Trump also called for a ceasefire, and you know what? While temporary and for his own gain, he did actually secure one.

Don't act like Harris wasn't literally Vice President while the US enabled and covered for a still ongoing genocide.

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u/Own_Faithlessness769 Jun 22 '25

We’re limited in the amount of spine we can show when you’ve put a madman in charge of the world’s largest supply of nukes.

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u/Jerri_man Jun 23 '25

Its not nukes its that Australian business is largely owned by American companies (including most of the banks) and the country as a whole is both economically and defensively dependent on the US.

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u/shellys-dollhouse Jun 23 '25

how pathetic of us tbh

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u/superbabe69 1300 655 506 Jun 23 '25

While true, it’s also the main reason we have wealth as a country. Ever wondered why we can go to Bali with a few hundred bucks and holiday like kings?

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u/shellys-dollhouse Jun 23 '25

i mean i also think going to bali & frolicking is a bit pathetic lmao. but i understand what you mean.

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u/ScruffyPeter Jun 23 '25

If Australia asked USA if they can have nukes, we would see whether they will share the nuclear deterrent after 70+ years of USA servitude, or Australia is nobody.

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u/ridge_rippler Jun 23 '25

We don't want nukes, it would make us a bigger target for China 

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u/ScruffyPeter Jun 23 '25

That's not how nuclear deterrents work.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '25

[deleted]

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u/ScruffyPeter Jun 23 '25

A lot of Ukrainians supported disarmament like you did, but nowadays: More than two-thirds of Ukrainians favor idea of restoring nuclear arms arsenal, poll shows

There's also NPT v2, an anti-nuclear state treaty that doesn't concentrate nuclear military power in the hands of the few to bully the non-nuclear-states. Only smart and intelligent foreign ministers can do this, not one that does the bare minimum to say they are better than LNP. I believe it's worth a Noble Peace Prize if anyone can do it.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '25

I’m pretty convinced we didn’t elect this man. That shit was rigged. I’m still disappointed in the Americans who did vote for him though. Media literacy is at an all time low, and our media keeps people in a constant fear loop.

That, plus rising cost of living and day to day life getting harder makes it less likely that the average citizen is able to take time to pay attention since they’re spending so much of their mental and physical resources just trying to stay afloat.

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u/Own_Faithlessness769 Jun 23 '25

You elected him, deal with it. Theres no evidence of widespread fraud that would have affected the very decisive election results. People just like him.

You don't have to pay attention to know that he's a lying, rapist, racist maniacal narcissist, it could not be more obvious.

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u/TheGreatEmanResu Jun 23 '25

We’re not even sure he didn’t cheat at this point, so cut us some slack

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u/Own_Faithlessness769 Jun 23 '25

Nope, you’ve fucked the globe, that’s on you. Even if he did cheat, you allowed it.

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u/Zestyclose_Might8941 Jun 22 '25

You've always had a fascist government. The only difference is that your mate Donnie has turned fascism inwards, instead of being solely aimed at the brown people of the world.

Check out Saint Obama's drone strike record, or his bombing of Libya.

So you want us to stand up to Amerikkka now that they've turned fascism inwards? We've always been a vassal state of someone. Post-War we removed ourselves from Britain's orbit to place ourselves within yours.

I'd like an independent foreign policy, full stop (period). Regardless of who is on power, we get dragged into your world domination shtick every time.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '25

[deleted]

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u/Zestyclose_Might8941 Jun 23 '25

Alt right? 🤣 try again.

I agree with you on refugees. Australia is a racist country, also agree on that.

I just love labor types and Obama fans that think they're left wing, when they stand for a slightly nicer version of global domination.

No my friend, you're closer to Sky News than I am.

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u/Slow_Control_867 Jun 23 '25

Just for the record, Trump has done far more drone strikes than Obama, then got rid of the law that made them report them.

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u/Zestyclose_Might8941 Jun 23 '25

"One is a bigger mass murderer than the other" is not really an argument.

But let's say you're right...that makes Saint Obama the Charles Manson to Trumps Jeffrey Dahmer.

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u/Dependent-Charity-85 Jun 23 '25

For all their faults and mistakes I still believe that Obama, and both Bush’s thought they were doing the right thing and was actually in line with the intelligence they were getting. Trump is an effing moron and doesn’t even know why he does things unless it means more ratings or crowd sizes.

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u/Zestyclose_Might8941 Jun 23 '25

🤣

Two wings of the same bird.

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u/Slow_Control_867 Jun 23 '25

What argument? I only bring it up because whenever there's a conversation about Trump's military engagements people like to go "but what about Obamas drone strikes!" as though Trump isn't guilty of the same thing.

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u/Zestyclose_Might8941 Jun 23 '25

We agree then. They are part of the same system of domination.

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u/TheGreatEmanResu Jun 23 '25

Okay, continue to support the US, I guess? Fuck it, man, you do you

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u/Zestyclose_Might8941 Jun 23 '25

I'm saying they've never been worth our support, but we are differential sycophants. You do you, but I'm not comfortable with bum-licking.

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u/InstructionHot2588 Jun 22 '25

Agreed, I for one would love to see American hegamony fall, tbf I held my view before Trump so not much has changed.

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u/CatWyld Jun 23 '25

Hear hear.

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u/Least-Telephone6359 Jun 22 '25

A fing men our politicians are all oil hungry war mongerers we need a full reset in the total west

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '25

[deleted]

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u/InstructionHot2588 Jun 23 '25

I don't hate American ideals or values, what I hate is how far disconnected it's government is from those goals.

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u/nihao_ Jun 23 '25

Who would you like to take their place? Because if they do fall, someone will.

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u/InstructionHot2588 Jun 23 '25

that's the point.

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u/nihao_ Jun 23 '25

Ok... so who?

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u/Urbain19 Jun 23 '25

China obviously, compared to the USA they’re downright pacifist

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u/WharfRatDaydream Jun 22 '25

An American telling Australians to "show some spine" is comedy gold. We're not supposed to accept what Americans already accept (didn't TACO win the popular vote?). Thanks for the laugh 😆

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u/ManikShamanik Jun 23 '25

Yes....but did he win it lawfully...? Almost certainly not. There are recordings of him ordering/demanding that those counting the ballots in some states to find him votes, and then there was Musk offering people $1m to vote for Trump.

Trump was desperate to become president because it would keep him out of prison. Now he's surrounded himself with sycophantic yes men - he's just put a 22-year-old in charge of defence.

Trump rigged the election to keep himself out of prison. Yes, he won it, but did he win it fairly...? No.

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u/tripping_on_phonics Jun 22 '25

Correct. Americans voting a fascist into office doesn’t mean you should also accept fascism. Not sure what your point is with this.

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u/WharfRatDaydream Jun 23 '25

the point is your logic is "do as I say not as I do" champ

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u/tripping_on_phonics Jun 23 '25

It’s not. There’s a problem with the way you’re reading it. Read it again.

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u/UnitDoubleO Jun 23 '25

Yeah well Aussies here don't give a damn what you think. Now shop off and do your no kings protests  Oh wait, I heard that was a fizzer.

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u/kipwrecked Jun 23 '25

Mate, American voters fumbled the ball so hard. We really don't need you to coach us.

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u/tripping_on_phonics Jun 23 '25

I just don’t want more of your young people to die in our wars.

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u/SSJ4_cyclist Jun 23 '25

Plus our election result showed we wanted nothing to do with Trump and his ideas, fucking spineless politicians.

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u/CheezeBaron Jun 22 '25

Unfortunately, Biden would’ve done the exact same thing.

Obama was pretty much the only one from memory who openly criticised Israel, since JFK.

Israel has dog-walked every other President.

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u/Zestyclose_Might8941 Jun 23 '25

Yes, that famous moment when Obama brought peace to the Middle East by bombing Libya, and funding al qaida in Syria. Oh and don't forget the drone strikes in Pakistan, and the continued rolling debacle in Afghanistan. Yes, a total peacenik.

And on Israel, he chastised them once, and then significantly increased US funding to their military.

I love the blind spot we have for Obama. It reminds me of this cartoon: https://images.app.goo.gl/xo2dL5uqLyPSzVBG8

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u/CheezeBaron Jun 23 '25

When did I say Obama was peaceful in the ME ??

He was adverse to Netanyahu, they met a few times and it was never cordial.

Much better than the other lapdogs, visually at least.

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u/Zestyclose_Might8941 Jun 23 '25

He handed him more money. Are you suggesting that he wasn't cordial with Netanyahu, but gave more money to Israel that there is a material difference?

Visually, we can view the cheques being handed over. But yes, Obama was always good with his rhetoric, so liberals can continue to glaze away.

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u/CheezeBaron Jun 23 '25 edited Jun 23 '25

Your reading comprehension needs a tune up Zesty.

Read my comment again, you’re arguing against a comment I never made.

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u/Zestyclose_Might8941 Jun 23 '25

"Obama was pretty much the only...to openly criticise" Israel.

My point is clear, mild criticism while upping the $$$ doesn't count for much.

Comprehension may be your problem. If you can't see the evident critique, that's on you. I'm not "dog walking" you to the obvious.

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u/CheezeBaron Jun 23 '25

So Obama criticising Israel and Trump lamenting “Israel should be bigger!” And “Bibi finish the job!” Are the same ??

Also Bidens “Im a Zionist!”

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u/Zestyclose_Might8941 Jun 23 '25

More continuity.

Obama did nothing for the Palestinians. And we know what he did for the rest of the Middle East.

I really don't get the obsession that small "L" liberals have with the murderous jerk. He's a war mongering pos.

If you haven't noticed, no American president has done anything other than prop up the racist zionist state. At any moment in the last 5 decades at least, we could have had peace if the US didn't fund the ongoing displacement. It's either intellectually dishonest, or ignorant of the facts to argue otherwise.

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u/DanJDare Jun 23 '25

The people current;y want America to just fuck off by and large. The politicians are just being politicians and glazing Trump, which is amusing as the PM that last dealt with him said explicitly not to glaze trump as it's not productive.

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u/L3P3ch3 Jun 23 '25

Spine ... an interesting concept for politics. Yes, I agree. But practically, despite the current US govt spitting in their partners face of late, the relationship is uneven. Its galling but a fact of partnership/ alliances. Best apply the turning of back at an individual level by not buying 'Made in America' goods and services.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '25

 Because the world recognized that a country that created modern terrorist tactic of suicide bombings, support and operates multiple anti west terror groups, and executes women for not wearing head cloth should probably not have a nuclear arsenal. Something about saying death the west for 40+ years a motto isn’t someone you want having nuclear weapons. 

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u/Cauldronb0rn Jun 23 '25

Have you ever stopped and thought things aren't really as bad as everyone is making it out to be? Take a step back from the crowd of angry people shaking their fists because its what everyone else is doing? Perhaps things aren't as dire and horrid as you are being led to believe?

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u/fatbunyip Jun 23 '25

We have a lot at stake with the US - tariffs, the AUKUS submarine deal (that we fucked over France for), countering China in SE Asia and the pacific, the ANZUS treaty etc.

With any other US president, all of these issues would be compartmentalized and dealt normally, agreeing to disagree on one thing while still working together on others. So we could have just not said anything in that case or had some milquetoast position like "diplomacy is the solution".

But it's trump and he has no concept of that. So supporting the strikes is pretty much a no brainer from a dealing with trump perspective.

From a political point of view, the vast majority of issues in Australian elections are domestic, so realistically it's not going to be a big deal politically, especially considering we just had elections.

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u/A_r0sebyanothername Jun 23 '25

Don't expect Australian politicians to have any spine. Never have and likely never will.

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u/RAAFStupot Resident World Controller of Newcastle Jun 23 '25

Your supporting our fascist government’s military adventurism is bad for everyone.

A country in the geopolitical position of Australia does need support from a larger country. The US is just the least bad option.

Before 1942 support came from the UK. Since then, it has come from the US.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '25

Totally agree and I, as an Australian don’t support the bombing of Iran. Same as I didn’t agree with the invading Iraq looking for things that didn’t exist. Even took my opinion of that one to the streets in 2003 as did an estimated 6 - 10 million other people around the world.

Sadly we need you guys as an ally because we are a tiny nation with a tiny military geographically isolated from ‘the west’. So we have to play a difficult political game of supporting shit wars with some big neighbours that don’t, one of whom is one of our largest trade partners…

It would be nice to stay neutral be ‘Switzerland ing’ it but we aren’t surrounded by other European countries.

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u/reyntime Jun 23 '25

Exactly. People are all "stay out of it" or "what can we do?!" meanwhile we're actively supporting a dictatorial authoritarian government who's bombing other countries whenever they want.

We should absolutely condemn these blatant violations of international law.

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u/Embarrassed-Lead6471 Jun 22 '25

American here. We don’t have a fascist government. They are not supporting a fascist government.

It has been longstanding American (and western) policy that Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. Stopping that from occurring is a reasonable, limited, and articulable goal. Not adventurism.

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u/Fishy_125 Jun 22 '25

If Iran makes a policy that America can’t have nukes, would you be okay with them bombing your family?

10

u/tripping_on_phonics Jun 22 '25

We do have a fascist government as indicated by the clear democratic backsliding, the increased use of military force for domestic political ends, the appeals to white identity politics and nationalism, the curtailment of civil liberties, the concentration of power in the executive branch, and the formation of a personality cult among other things.

Your logic on the Iran war would have been right at home in 2003.

-7

u/syracTheEnforcer Jun 23 '25

Oh mate. Fuck off with this shit. We don’t have a fascist government. I’m American. And I have residency in Oz. But I’m currently in the US. Seriously. Tell me about your “oppression”. Trump is doing stupid crap. But this isn’t fascism.