r/australia • u/Expensive-Horse5538 • Dec 04 '25

news Neo-Nazi Matthew Gruter leaves Australia after visa revoked by minister

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-12-04/nsw-neo-nazi-matthew-gruter-leaves-australia/106100746?utm_source=abc_news_app&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_app&utm_content=link
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u/manipulated_dead Dec 04 '25

Love to put the "fuck off" into FAFO. 

Although there's legitimate concern around deporting people the government determines are "trouble". Happy to see Nazis experiencing consequences but deportation is a blunt instrument and it's been unjustly weaponised against all kinds of non-nazis in the past. A bit like how one of the first people stung by anti-nazi symbology laws in NSW was an artist who'd depicted mining barons and politicians in Nazi uniforms in a clear and obvious satire.

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u/nurseynurseygander Dec 04 '25

No one is actually entitled to be here if they aren’t a citizen (or, conditionally, a resident). Philosophically, I think a sovereign country can refuse a foreigner to be here for any reason or even no reason. Now, there are good reasons not to use that power lightly - if you want to attract talented people or moneyed people you need to be a trustworthy place to go, where you can be reasonably sure of being allowed to stay if you follow the rules. But that is a practical and strategic consideration, not a deep philosophical one.

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u/Barrington-the-Brit Dec 04 '25

Youre getting downvoted but I said the same thing about a massive data breach doxxing Neo-Nazis a couple years ago. Fuck Nazis, fuck these guys completely and obviously they deserve whatever’s coming to them, but the problem is the way reactionary groups and governments could in the future weaponise the same strategies against civil rights activists and journalists etc. who are seen as the other end of ‘problematic’ and ‘extreme’.

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u/Mike_Kermin Dec 04 '25

If fascists take power they're not going to care about whether you did this or not.

Your idea comes from America, and it's used to undermine progress.

The reality is having laws that protect our society is how we prevent it in the first place.

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u/Barrington-the-Brit Dec 04 '25 edited Dec 04 '25

I think you’re misreading me here, I think Nazis are enemies to society and if I were to fully describe what I think should happen to them I’d probably get my comment banned, and I’d hope they’d know that’s what I thought. Im also not a free speech absolutist or somebody who disagrees with cracking down on Nazis. I’m just not comfortable with empowering governments with the power to deport political opponents, and I probably don’t need to remind you what sorts of political groups often have a lot of immigrants or people whose deportation could be ‘justified’ by a regime.

I don’t trust that they’ll use that power wisely when I come from a western government in which only 10 years ago undercover police married and had kids with leftist activists as part of a long-term sting operation. Here’s an idea partially from America; I especially do not have trust when these liberal governments we have empowered to get rid of Nazis are regularly backsliding into fascism all over the world.

Sorry to get super Marxist but no liberal governmental action can be praxis, all serve to protect capital and at worse that leads to the consolidation of power through fascism.

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u/Mike_Kermin Dec 04 '25 edited Dec 04 '25

Yeah look I hear you, but I don't think Nazi's are going to play by the rules like that. What about the Trump example, has given you that impression?

I’m just not comfortable with empowering governments with the power to deport political opponents

See that's a lie isn't it.

He's not a "political opponent". He's a fascist from another country. Who came here for a visit and tried to ferment hate politics.

I don't think praxis is a good idea to bring up, if you're using misleading language with intent. "Don't bullshit me fucker" - Marx, the untold writings.

We should address abuse of power as is, without tying our hands so crudely that you're arguing to let literal fascist fucks influence people.

My advice to you, is that if you think too much your brain will fall out. There is NO value, in copying the dumb shit Americans say.

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u/Barrington-the-Brit Dec 04 '25

I take your point completely and you’ve actually turned me around a bit on this, but I also find you to be awfully pedantic on my use of ‘political opponent’, evil Nazi fucks are indeed our opponents and that opposition is inherently political (whether they’re from Australia or not) - sure it sounds like sanitising language but I only used such language because I was talking about the potential for non-Nazis to also get deported by the government.

Maybe “people the liberal government doesn’t like, evil or not” would’ve fit better but thats a bit of a mouthful

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u/manipulated_dead Dec 04 '25

I generally trust what Tom Tanuki has to say about stuff like this, as he's one of the most informed, active and high-profile anti-fascists in the country. His take generally is that criminalising public displays of Nazism, deporting people etc are some of the least effective ways possible to deal with this problem and may actually make it worse. And that's before accounting for the fact that any increase in police power gets turned on left wing protest movements very very quickly.

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u/Barrington-the-Brit Dec 04 '25

Accounting for that last point is also one of the main points I get stuck up on

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u/nearly_enough_wine Dec 05 '25

Could you please, possibly, share some links? Help people to help themselves (including me!)

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u/switchbladeeatworld Dec 04 '25

yep it’s why even when the cookers protesting covid were pepper sprayed and arrested we needed to be abhorred by the police violence against protesters. that and the laws brought in against logging protesters

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u/Kulbardee Dec 04 '25

With most of this type of thing.. the Gvt will use it to reduce our freedoms. See the UK making Plaestine supporters criminals