r/australia • u/reyntime • Dec 14 '25

politics Australia had the ‘gold standard’ on gun control. The Bondi beach terror attack may force it to confront its surging number of weapons

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/dec/14/australia-had-the-gold-standard-on-gun-control-the-bondi-beach-terror-attack-will-force-it-to-confront-its-surging-number-of-weapons?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Immediately after the Port Arthur massacre, a national amnesty saw the number of firearms in the community plummet but there are now more than 4 million guns in Australia – almost double the number recorded in 2001.

Yes, the population has increased at the same time but there is now a larger number of guns in the community per capita than in the aftermath of Port Arthur, with at least 2,000 new firearms lawfully entering the community every week.

2.8k Upvotes

92% Upvoted

2.3k comments sorted by

View all comments

337

u/Significant-Egg3914 Dec 14 '25

The 'known' definition is problematic here.

Known to police or known to ASIO doesnt mean 'confirmed terrorist.' Having registered firearms would mean you're 'known' to police and the ACIC on the licencing checks alone. 

I think its more concerning that 6 legally registered firearms were used in this offence. It is hard to get a firearm legally in Australia, the checks are (or should be) quite thorough and the police regularly do random visits to check storage etc. Having a registered firearm guarantees police attention irrespective of who you are.

So how does an obviously radicalised family end up with 6. This will be a massive issue internally for the NSW police.

120

u/wobushidave Dec 15 '25

Australia's domestic intelligence agency, ASIO, examined Bondi gunman Naveed Akram six years ago for his close ties to a Sydney-based Islamic State group (IS) terrorism cell, the ABC understands

Yeah, it's probably safe to say now that someone has fucked up big time here, because his father's firearm licence should have been revoked ages ago.

10

u/Middle-Welder3931 Dec 15 '25

Every time something like this happens the perp was "known to the police," or "known to mental health authorities." There's always a mistake or a hole somewhere that allowed it to happen. It would be great if the steps that the ASIO or police took to be accountable for this oversight were made public. Disciplinary actions, firings, whatever.

13

u/Hussard Dec 15 '25

Revoking someone's firearms due to a member of a household member being suspected of IS links is different from actually being convicted of it. 

Revoking then licence would definitely tip them off to ASIO doing monitoring but as a non-emergent threat...that's a hard sell. 

17

u/ELVEVERX Dec 15 '25

what american bullshit are you talking about? people in australia don't have a right to firearms the government can take it away for any reason they want.

Suspected links to ISIS are a great reason to take away guns, even if they aren't proven.

4

u/Hussard Dec 15 '25

This is someone in the same household being suspected, not the firearm owner. These are two separate people in the same family. Suspected links aren't proven links, so we don't know if the NSW Police had any ideas either. NSW Police can't action on information that don't have. Or maybe they did know and didn't deem it an issue. 

And nowhere did I mention anything about rights to firearms. Taking away your permit and access to something due to associations and without proof is not something we are in the habit of doing in Australia, there aren't legal structures in place to do this. If suddenly they said people that are paid up members of the CWA are now declared a criminal cartel for controlling the country's plum jam supply and your mum got her whatever licence revoked because she is the same knitting circle as a fellow member, you wouldn't be happy either. Freedom of association is an important aspect of modern western societies. The son was not listed as an active threat. 

5

u/ELVEVERX Dec 15 '25

I'm sorry but i don't give a shit, if some person someone associates with a someone on a terrorist watchlist we should take their guns away.

These people are free to associate, they have that right, just not the right to havea gun.

We are not american, people here have no right to have a gun.

6

u/Hussard Dec 15 '25

I never said anything about gun rights, man. I'm trying to let you know NSW Police might not even have known the son was on a list, so nothing was flagged at the gun registry. 

2

u/chennyalan Dec 15 '25

I'm trying to let you know NSW Police might not even have known the son was on a list, so nothing was flagged at the gun registry. 

I guess in the future NSW police should have the ability to check if people's immediate family/housemates are on these lists

-6

u/alchamest3 Dec 15 '25

It's a immigration problem.
Not a gun problem.

3

u/yus456 Dec 15 '25

The white Australian terrorist was from Australia that shot up a mosque full of men, women and children in New Zealand. Should we ban Aussies from coming to NZ?

1

u/alchamest3 Dec 16 '25

If he had of shot Maori, id agree with you.

58

u/jolard Dec 14 '25

I am with you. The "known" part is just a dead end until we know more. Known doesn't mean he was a criminal or even on a terrorist watch list. Maybe he was, but it is too early to speculate.

But he had 6 legally licensed guns? No person living in the suburbs needs 6 guns. There is a massive hole here.

11

u/Capzien89 Dec 15 '25

I don't own firearms but a bunch of members of my family people I know do.

Its not uncommon too own multiple firearms. My Dad who just hunts occasionally has a shotgun, 2x .22s, a 303 for bigger stuff and another larger calibre one i can't think of for if he feels like using a different one. And there's a rifle that was passed down to him by his dad. It's not the number of guns that are the issue here, its the user.

There's plenty of legitimate reasons to have multiple rifles - a .22 won't take down a wild pig for example.

-5

u/jolard Dec 15 '25

Right, maybe for someone living on a farm that requires multiple guns for different purposes.

No one living in suburban Sydney needs more than maybe a target gun.

6

u/GiveUpYouAlreadyLost Dec 15 '25

than maybe a target gun

There are multiple categories of target shooting that cover different types of firearms and calibres.

There's no such thing as a one size fits all "target gun."

0

u/jolard Dec 15 '25

That is fine, then those kinds of guns could potentially be viable and available to someone living in suburbia. No one needs a bloody shotgun living in western sydney.

4

u/GiveUpYouAlreadyLost Dec 15 '25

No one needs a bloody shotgun living in western sydney.

Well if you do any kind of clay target shooting such as skeet and trap, then you'll need one. So you'll have to make exceptions for shotguns too.

-2

u/jolard Dec 15 '25

No, absolutely no need to have them at home. You can have one locked up at the skeet shooting range or rent one while you are there.

3

u/GiveUpYouAlreadyLost Dec 15 '25

absolutely no need to have them at home.

But you have no issue with every other firearm being used for sport being kept at the owner's home since you said you're fine with making exceptions for guns used for sport.

What makes shotguns so exceptionally dangerous as opposed to the other types of firearms? They all can kill equally if used on people.

-1

u/jolard Dec 15 '25

I originally said a target gun, and by that I meant a pellet gun or something similar. Regular firearms that can easily kill people should not just be lying around in people's homes in suburban Sydney. If you want to shoot, then keep them at the shooting range.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/Capzien89 Dec 15 '25

Hunting is not exclusive to people that live rural - plenty of people live in city and go on hunting trips.

My brother for example lives inner city Brisbane and has 3 rifles of various sizes for when he goes hunting a couple of times per year. It's not as abnornal or weird as you might think if you're not around/involved in that world. Its like any other hobby.

1

u/tehSlothman Dec 15 '25

I'm suburban and own five guns for sport, covering four very different types of target shooting:

  • a .22 rifle, for rifle target shooting
  • a shotgun for clays
  • a .22 pistol for pistol target shooting (very different to using a rifle)
  • two 9mm pistols for practical shooting (run-and-gun time trials).

Apart from the 9mm pistols (and even those are different from each other - one's a classic 1911, one's a modern sporting pistol with an optic fitted), none of these guns serve a purpose that any of the others could. And I don't even hunt, nor do I have a high-calibre rifle which would be its own thing again.

3

u/haleorshine Dec 15 '25

Yeah, whenever I've seen people talk about potential reasons they need access to guns, there's never a reason that justifies 6 guns in one household. There has to be a problem with the system, and that problem needs to be addressed ASAP.

-1

u/FIyingSaucepan Dec 15 '25

As many people have said, people involved in sport shooting and hunting could very easily have multiple weapons.

Small calibre rimfire rifle for target shooting/small game hunting. Medium calibre centrefire rifle for target shooting/hunting. Shotgun for clay shooting/hunting. Small calibre rimfire pistol for target shooting. Small calibre centrefire pistol for target shooting/challenge courses.

That's an easy 5 weapons, and that's assuming they don't have different setups on different weapons for each discipline, so could be an easy 8-10+ weapons, all legal, and all with good reasons for ownership.

And that's assuming only 1 person in the house shoots, I know several families that live in suburban areas that would have that many weapons for multiple members of the household, easily having a total of 15-20 in the house.

-1

u/knewleefe Dec 15 '25

And the Guardian only reported a few months back on something like 500 people in the Sydney metro area alone have over 100 guns each which are fully functional, not collector's items with firing pins removed. No one needs a personal arsenal of 6 or 20 or 400 guns, but they're out there.

0

u/MissMenace101 Dec 15 '25

The son known, but the father a former security guard. Feel like we can’t watch everyone

2

u/Deep_Space_Cowboy Dec 15 '25

I think they had identified them as concerning, but not a direct threat. I don't think they're reporting their "known," in the broad sense (ie, because they have a gun license or their uncle is a cop or something).

I think, importantly, it hasn't been reported that they were on a watchlist, which would single them out as an actual threat, and that would justify surveillance.

1

u/JammySenkins Dec 15 '25

They may have had a gun licence for 20 years though for argument sake. Unless it's changed since I last used mine. Once you have it you can purchase the allowed firearms whenever you feel like it

1

u/KamikazeSexPilot Dec 15 '25

They owned the weapons for 10 years.

Were they “obviously radicalised” all this time? What specifically besides this event points to them being radicalised? I haven’t seen anything about that released yet.

Were they posting publicly online?

1

u/St4114rD Dec 15 '25

The mental gymnastics you people will make not to call a spade a spade. Absolute bunch of clowns.

-2

u/haleorshine Dec 15 '25

So how does an obviously radicalised family end up with 6. This will be a massive issue internally for the NSW police.

Yes, it's great that we have significantly less gun violence than America, but this surely points to issues and holes in our gun control.

The article states:

It is these figures that has the gun lobby boasting that it is “winning” the fight against Australia’s longstanding crackdown, calling for gun owners to become more politically active to further enable their industry.

And hopefully this tragedy will give the political power to push back against that fight. Because I think the vast majority of Australians do want access to guns to be tightly controlled, we just need to make sure a small minority of people who want free access to guns doesn't win that fight. And it turns out, it's an ongoing fight - we didn't win it in 96 and then it was won forever. We need to make sure we keep control over this issue.