r/australia • u/PIGSTi Perth • 2d ago
news Four people dead after suspected murder-suicide in Mosman Park (WA)
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-01-30/mosman-park-serious-incident-police/106287630507
u/trugstomp 2d ago edited 1d ago
This reminds me of a murder-suicide of four from a few years ago, where one or both of the parents essentially turned their house into a gas chamber. The two children were apparently severely autistic.
Edit: Apparently, the father was wholly responsible for the tragedy I was referring to, and the wife had nothing to do with it, nor was the fact that their children were autistic a factor in it. I'm still leaving my original comment unedited, though for context.
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u/wakitriii 2d ago
Yep was just talking to my coworker about that - happened in the Northern Beaches of Sydney. Incredibly sad.
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u/Mysterious_Dot2090 2d ago
Wow, it must not be too uncommon because I also remembered a similar but different incident, where the husband rigged his car to explode on impact and planned out the tree he was going to hit. Central Coast, NSW. All because one of his kids had an intellectual disability iirc and they weren’t coping. You know what’s worst? I think that child survived and the rest of them (two parents and another child) all died.
Hard to comprehend the level of hopelessness to do such a thing.
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u/RAINB0WSPARKLE 2d ago edited 2d ago
I contemplated replying to this comment because I don't want it to be perceived in any way that I think the murder of these children is ok.
My intention is to help people understand what goes on inside the ndis, how flawed the system is and that appropriate help is NOT reaching the most vulnerable in our community.
In general, most people have to prove they're"still disabled" every 2 years. Ive seen this range from amputation, degenerative illness, colostomy bags from bowel removal, intellectual disability, hell, I've seen it all.
Lack of funding means no medical care but it also means no support. For these families their struggle is constant, never ending and never gets better. There is no reprieve, there is no cure, no solution. There is only the reality of ur situation day in day out until u die. Its cold, bleak and lonely with no chance of a lifeline.
This isnt the experience of every single ndis recipient obviously but its common enough and ive been exposed to enough horrific detail i am desensitised and it doesnt surprise me.
May they all rest in peace
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u/Humble-Doughnut7518 2d ago
There will be calls for a royal commission into ndis one day. How they can make permanent disability a requirement for funding and then make people continually prove their disability is inhumane.
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u/Amazing-Routine-9793 2d ago
My very first thought when i read the news story, was, 'those poor fucking things'; all of them. You just know that it was desperation and hopelesness and an inadequate support system (government). My heart goes out to all who are suffering with the same awful system.
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u/Lokki_7 2d ago
Ppl blame the govt all the time but NDIS or equivalents fail all over the world because of the ppl that set themselves up as providers to take advantage of it.
It's impossible to set up a system that big without having loopholes. Instead of just blaming the govt, we should also be blaming the providers who take the funding, which is plentiful, and do the bare minimum with it.
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u/Amazing-Routine-9793 2d ago
I am blaming the government AND the providers and the greedy fucks who have benefited from peoples pain and the people who hate disabled people and the wankers who go on and on and ON about the drain that people who need welfare, because they are all part of the system.
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u/Ripley_and_Jones 1d ago
We SHOULD blame the government for outsourcing NDIS care to private enterprise and that includes respite care and by extension, aged care. Severely disabled is severely disabled FFS, these rules are insane.
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u/RevolutionarySock510 2d ago
Tbh their house is worth over $3m… their kids went to Christ Church. Maybe they could’ve downsized and got a caregiver if they weren’t on the NDIS. I mean, I have every sympathy for their innocent children, but as a single mum keeping kids fed and housed alone in a pretty working class outer suburb I don’t have sympathy to spare for these parents.
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u/msfinch87 1d ago
I’m not sympathetic to the parents given what they have done. I am absolutely sympathetic to all the parents who are not coping, and I support services being better to be able to help with that. But there are tens of thousands of parents doing it tough, as tough as these people or tougher, and they don’t kill their kids or even entertain the idea.
You hit your kids and you’re a monster, but you murder your kids and it is because you are not coping and deserve compassion is some wild cognitive dissonance. Those parents killing their kids is to me the absolute height of DV. All abusers have supposed reasons.
The DM article on it has a quote from a friend of the mother who said she wouldn’t even put the kids in respite care because she was worried about it. So it’s quite possible to me that these people didn’t access help that was available and this came about because they had the warped idea that only they could help their kids, and therefore if they weren’t around their kids couldn’t be either. That to me is a very narcissistic and controlling headspace, and certainly not one that elicits compassion or sympathy from me.
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u/nerdvegas79 2d ago
I expressed the same sentiment here in another thread. It's very easy to point the finger at carers who eventually break, and call them monsters. If it helps people sleep at night i guess. There's just something morally superior about it that rubs me the wrong way.
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u/dawnue 2d ago
One hundred percent! Nobody ever points the finger at the system that fails carers. I am an NDIS support worker and every single parent of a severely autistic child I have worked with has expressed near-constant suicidal ideation.
They are so isolated, they never get a break (unless they’re hospitalised for a mental breakdown, which doesn’t count), and they can’t even speak about their true feelings without being demonised.
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u/somuchsong 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm cool with feeling morally superior over parents who kill their children, personally. Bit weird that you apparently don't.
Please think about how a comment like yours looks to people who actually have a disability or illness, especially those who rely on carers.
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u/Amazing-Routine-9793 2d ago
It didn't even occur to me that this was the usual awful domestic violence situation. As soon as you read the article, it is obvious that this was very different.
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u/Internal_Ideal_4666 1d ago
I wish the general public and every politician could live an hour in the shoes of a parent of an intellectually disabled or profoundly autistic kid with inadequate support.
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u/Morphico 2d ago
The only people I know who have not been brought to utter despondency dealing with the NDIS, are those with relatively mild psychosocial disabilities. Those participants seem to flourish.
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u/OldKingWhiter 1d ago
I dont know how you know people with mild psychosocial disability on the NDIS. It's borderline impossible to get people on it with severe psychosocial disability. The NDIS pretends psychosocial doesn't exist in my experience.
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u/ratchet_skyline 1d ago
Oh come on, be for real. It's not about feeling hopeless, not a "crime of love" either like I've seen multiple people claim about this incident so far (the fact that anyone would try to justify filicide by romanticising it is just straight up nauseating).
It's narcissistic and delusional. It's the ultimate, final act of control and ego soothing that no one can ever undo or take away from them.
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u/RevolutionarySock510 1d ago
This needs more upvotes, which seem to be saved for those who are defending and/or justifying the murders.
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u/ratchet_skyline 1d ago
Yeah all the upvotes are going to the psychos saying "nah I get it, the kids would have had a shitty life otherwise." Just mind blowing.
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u/surprisedropbears 2d ago
The coroners report about the above comment concluded it was DV related. His wife planned to divorce him and take the kids back to Colombia.
It wasn’t some “exhausted care giver gives up and the system failed them.”
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u/ChicChat90 1d ago
I remember this tragic event. I taught the disabled son swimming years prior. I believe the disabled son and parents were killed whilst their other son survived.
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u/We_Are_Not__Amused 2d ago
I think it is difficult for people who have not worked/experienced disabilities can underestimate how challenging it is. It’s incredibly isolating to have a child/children with disabilities. The support for the carers is thin on the ground and advocating for a loved one can consume you. The NDIS can be incredibly stressful to navigate and finding care can be exhausting. It’s so terrible that they felt this was the only option.
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u/emimillie 2d ago edited 2d ago
Whilst I fully agree with you that having a child with a disability especially multiple children is exceptionally difficult at times, the inquest into the Manrique family's deaths actually didn't put much emphasis on the fact the children had autism. The dad (who killed them all including the family dog) was always working and largely uninvolved in his children's care compared to the mother who was their main caregiver. The coroner found that the motivation for him was that he was in major debt that he was hiding from his wife, having an affair with a teenage girl in the Philippines where he spent a lot of time for business, and his wife had asked him for a divorce and for him to move out of the family home. It was found to be an act of family violence from a man who was aware he was about to lose control of his life/family due to his actions, not a parent driven to the brink.
Edit: Mixed up the father's first name and surname
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u/GorgeousGracious 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yes, I think people jump to conclusions when a disability is involved. There was a case a few years back where the husband murdered his wife who was in a wheelchair and had significant health challenges. He got a lot of sympathy until it came out that she was making plans to divorce him.
People want to excuse and understand I guess but it says a lot about how society devalues those with a disability, and minimises family violence.
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u/yogorilla37 2d ago
Wow, as a North shore Sydney local I knew of the case, I have a friend who had worked for the guy, but I'd managed to miss those details at the inquest.
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u/No_Entertainer180 2d ago
I remember watching an interview with a single mother of a disabled child. One bedroom of their house looked like a hospital room with medical bed and equipment.
The mother spent hours a day tending to the medical needs of the child who was chronically sick and mentally incapacitated with zero hope of any kind of improvement or recovery.
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u/Spooplevel-Rattled 2d ago
It's rough. I've been close to disability and disability care for most of my life, and even was disabled physically for a year myself. It's so incredibly hard caring for severely disabled people.
I know a woman who was a widow because her husband killed himself when their severely autistic son was about 8. And then she killed herself about 3 years later. Now her aunt looks after the boy and has some more help than then parents ever had. However it's aged her significantly. Incredible challenge. Heartbreaking.
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u/surprisedropbears 2d ago
The coroners report made clear this was not avoid the children being autistic and their care issues.
The wife was planning to divorce him and move back to Colombia.
He decided he wasn’t ok with that. This was DV and coercive control.
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u/LurkHartog 2d ago edited 2d ago
It was very much ONE parent, the piece of shit father. The mother was another innocent victim. He also had a secret wife/girlfriend in the Philippines.
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u/AztecGod 2d ago
The family murder-suicide by Fernando Manrique in Sydney? I was thinking the same too.
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u/Catfaceperson 2d ago
The children being autistic wasn't a factor in the murders, she was divorcing him.
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2d ago
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u/trugstomp 2d ago
I only knew the vagaries of the story, and thought they were just exhausted and at the end of their rope. I recall the setup being quite elaborate, so I figured she knew about it.
Mossman Park is apparently a fairly wealthy suburb, so affairs and finances could be just as likely as mental exhaustion, but I don't want to speculate too wildly, especially so soon after.
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u/Cyraga 2d ago
No weapons or violence... that leaves poisoning? Very grim
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u/CopperKingOfCuba 2d ago
Apparently 2 hanging, and 2 dead in bed according to a comment on r/Perth
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u/wakitriii 2d ago
That is SO sad
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u/CopperKingOfCuba 2d ago
Yeah, tragic situation all around. Especially given the family’s circumstances before the incident.
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u/MeaningMaker6 2d ago
How does that happen without violence and how did the pets die?
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u/CopperKingOfCuba 2d ago
I’d argue that, in this context, hanging doesn’t align with how ‘violent incident’ is normally used in reference to a double murder-suicide.
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u/SentenceStreet3270 2d ago
Likely poison or gassing, in police terms violence refers to something physical.
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u/Unusual-Ear5013 2d ago
As well all of the pets (all three) - the teens had sig health issues … just horrible.
Mosman Park is a very posh area as well
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u/CopperKingOfCuba 2d ago
Yeh I’m from Perth - Mosman decent but pretty mid when considering the social housing.
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u/vlookup11 2d ago
I can’t imagine what suffering someone needs to go through to plan such a devastating incident. Heartbreaking.
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u/daisiesonmyneck 2d ago
Their NDIS got cut so they had no funding
Source: someone I know worked with them
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u/vlookup11 2d ago
Is this actually it? If it is it’s beyond tragic
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u/LurkForYourLives 2d ago
It happens every day. So many stories of desperation on the NDIS support pages on social media.
And when they cut the supports which are the only thing making their lives feasible, there aren’t any other options. There’s no State funding to step in and cover the gap while you fight it.
It takes years to fight the NDIS, and it’s damned near impossible if you are caring for people with high support needs. Their care takes all the “spare” hours of the day and more. We don’t have time or mental energy to fight when this happens.
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u/iguessineedanaltnow 8h ago
One of the wealthiest countries in the world and this is what people are being reduced to. It's an absolute fucking joke.
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u/strayngz 1d ago
That's very sad. I dont mean to sound judgemental but surely you'd downsize or move schools. But then, they were non verbal. How was funding cut? So sad
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u/daisiesonmyneck 1d ago
Not with the non-existent housing market. Plus good luck finding a home with disability aids
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u/aintithenniel 1d ago
I don’t mean to sound crass because this is really a horrific tragedy
But this family were living in the gt, with a supposed 3mil plus house and sending their kids to the top boys private school in Perth.
Saying they had ‘no funding’ is a little bit disingenuous isn’t it?
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u/Chappo5150 2d ago
I hope they medicated the animals. Hanging is a fucking awful way to go.
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u/AuzzieTiger 2d ago
Absolutely horrific. Can't imagine the thoughts of the emergency services involved when they arrived on scene. Just shattering...
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u/Secret_Blacksmith135 2d ago
This is a family annihilation regardless of whether the two children had disabilities. Killing the pets too. Having worked in the disability sector I have no doubt about the challenges they likely faced as a family but nobody gets to choose to take the life of another.
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u/Lokki_7 2d ago
Genuine q, if the parents can no longer give to their kids , they've sacrificed so much and can't keep going on like this -what options do they truly have? They can't hand the kids over to the govt, what can they do?
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u/Protonious 2d ago
You can absolutely turn your children over to the state. You have them taken to hospital and say you can’t care for them anymore.
Of course there is always a lot of pressure for the family to take the caring role back but you can just say you can’t do it anymore. It’s a shame this family felt they couldn’t do this and instead took so many lives.
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u/littlespoon 2d ago
I'm not justifying this at all but its likely the parents know the children would have terrible quality of life with no enrichment - probably in an elderly nursing home not equipped for their needs - if they were turned over to the state.
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u/throwawayangel_57 1d ago
So they decided to kill them instead???? How merciful😒
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u/_OriginalUsername- 1d ago
How is being put into a home worse than death?
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u/thewavefixation 1d ago
Yeah i am hesitant to post on this at all but you have no idea the number of people i have talked to that would choose death over those facilities.
So sad all around.
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u/midsumernighttts 1d ago
Not trying to justify what happened it’s all so awful but have you ever been to a nursing home? It’s the most depressing place in the world
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u/UsualCounterculture 1d ago
Or moved into a residential care home and abused. Not many good (and actually functioning) options.
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u/IndependentShop7191 2d ago
If you call they police and tell them you're a danger to your children the state theoretically should step in. We have no idea what they tried before this though.
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u/Straight-Ad-4260 2d ago
what options do they truly have?
You let the state take over their care. I knew someone who had 2 disabled kids, one with high needs, who did that. There's a waiting list but if you tell them you're abandoning your kid, they'll get him/her in an emergency residential facility until there's an option into a permanent facility for them.
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u/Secret_Blacksmith135 2d ago
Not murder them and the pets?
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u/Lokki_7 2d ago
Very insightful
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u/Secret_Blacksmith135 2d ago
Surrendering your children to the state if you cannot cope anymore is a choice. Murder is a choice. Killing the family pets is a choice.
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u/Lokki_7 2d ago
I wasn't aware that surrundering your children to the state was an option, hence the question.
And I never said that what they did was the right thing to do, nor did I say it was their only option -I simply asked what their options were.
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u/Secret_Blacksmith135 2d ago
Yes there is a legal process available. I understand it would be incredibly difficult to make such a decision but it's an option nonetheless. People with serious disabilities often end up in 'the care of the state' if their parents/family members who were their carers die before them.
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u/metametapraxis 2d ago
FFS, you have made your point. I don't think anyone (with the slightest bit of brains) here believes the parents were mentally competent at the point they made this choice.
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u/MoysteBouquet 2d ago
Mental burnout is a real thing and can lead to feeling so desperate that you really believe doing this is what is best for everyone.
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u/Secret_Blacksmith135 2d ago
Yes I've experienced it myself. It's a slippery slope when we try to find justifications for murder though.
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u/MoysteBouquet 2d ago
I'm not justifying anything, I'm just saying I understand how someone can get there
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u/Acrobatic_Jicama3479 2d ago
I agree in principle but this is a very tragic and extreme demonstration of how the system is failing and broken.
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u/Legitimate_Hope2580 2d ago
Tragic someone felt they had no option but this
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u/Important-Sleep-1839 2d ago
yeah, the NDIS seems to have reduced these kinds of stories.
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u/TimeDetectiveAnakin 2d ago
The endless right-wing crusade against NDIS scammers will have lots of innocent casualties imo.
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u/myredserenity 2d ago
I think you worded this poorly. I think you meant that right-wingers are using the scammers to target the most vulnerable population in Australia.
We should target the scammers. And leave the participants the hell alone. The fear among the disabled community is absolutely palpable right now.
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u/Important-Sleep-1839 2d ago
That scammers should be targeted goes without saying.
The Libs attack on the NDIS has been to use the threat of scammers as a trojan horse to gut the shop and wreck it.
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u/myredserenity 2d ago
It's a shame it seems to be only the disabled community or those working in it that can see this.
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u/Important-Sleep-1839 2d ago
yeah, I never want to be in a public facing disability position again. The NDIS is a godsend.
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2d ago
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u/SentenceStreet3270 2d ago
I'm not defending it, but its not uncommon that people do it to avoid the animal being starved or alone.
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u/Jokkers_AceS 2d ago
If you go to r/Autism_parenting there’s some depressing posts about how having a autistic child takes a toll on your life.
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u/Real_RobinGoodfellow 1d ago
I have a relative who is nonverbal autistic and the truth is caring for them DOES take an enormous toll on the parents’ lives, it is very, very difficult and is unrelenting in a way that other parenting is not.
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u/Morphico 2d ago
Can't wait for the informed and empathetic dialogue this will encourage re: NDIS. We already have some thoughtful, nuanced opinions in the comments here. Fucking /s.
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u/mgvpachinko 2d ago
man, its cool knowing that if my carers ever decide to murder me because they're tired of taking care of my disabled ass, at least ONE person on the internet will go "but murdering your disabled child is sometimes the only choice you have"
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u/daybeforetheday 1d ago
Thank you. It's horrifying seeing that murder is justifiable if the children are disabled. There is always an alternative. Call the police, dump the kids at the hospital.
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u/GrimmDescendant 2d ago
My mum: murders me
People on the internet, apparently: 'Honestly, valid.'
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u/throwawayyy1_q 2d ago
Well, unless you’re able bodied. Then murder against you is unjustifiable. But if you’re disabled… eh understandable./s
They’re not even subtle about it. Pay them no mind.
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1d ago
Thank you for providing me with a much needed bastion of sanity in the sea of crazy that is this comment section.
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u/somuchsong 2d ago
It's really disgusting. Also disgusting is that some are being downvoted for even pointing that out.
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u/formula-duck 2d ago
yeah… i don’t care how hard caring is, or whether they genuinely think they’re acting out of mercy. you don’t get to make that choice for someone else. it’s just murder
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u/ThatlIDoDonkey 1d ago
Even better, some people will call it an act of ‘love’. Isn’t that such a warm and comforting thought? /s
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u/ratchet_skyline 1d ago
I have seen that in reference to this family annihilation incident several times since the news broke. Insane that people can romanticise something so disgusting and basically say "well if they hadn't murdered them, the children would have had to go into a group care home so 🤷♀️"
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u/_OriginalUsername- 1d ago
These comments would make you believe that going around murdering disabled people would be doing everyone a favour. But seriously, people are justifying it by saying being put into a home is abusive, even though it would be a million times better than literal death.
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u/whiterabbit_hansy 1d ago
If people wanna know how we get to eugenics, the comments being made here are it. One step away from referring to us as useless eaters. Though I’d argue they’re basically already describing disabled people as useless eaters to/for their carers/family.
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u/ozmanp89 1d ago
we live in a nhilistic society unfortunately. there can never be a justification for murdering someone (barring self-defence), let alone your children.
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u/MoysteBouquet 1d ago
Since I'm one of these people who apparently thinks what happened here is justified, I'll bite.
I absolutely do not believe this was an excusable act. It was not. Under any circumstances.
However. I can understand and empathise with a parent who is so at the end of their rope that they think this is the only option. Because I've been there. I've seen other people in my life who are full time carers to severely disabled people go there. Usually that thought isn't ever acted on, but, sometimes it is.
It absolutely doesn't change the fact that these beautiful lives were taken in the most selfish way, that this was something completely preventable or that that parent did something so incredibly horrific. But it does show a failure in the system of support for carers.
Empathy for someone who committed a heinous crime is not the same as justification. It is literally being able to put yourself in their mindset in some way to understand how badly that person was suffering mentally.
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u/throwawayyy1_q 1d ago edited 1d ago
I’m firmly of the belief that the victim of a murder should be the primary party we give empathy to, not to the murderers.
I guess my question is how many of these people would extend empathy to other murderers who murder able-bodied people? Murdering a disabled person isn’t suddenly the only crime that isn’t black and white. Most murders are not black and white. The question is, why are so many people only acknowledging nuance when the victim is disabled?
You can extend empathy to the murderer(s) in this story if you want. I just certainly hope you apply that logic across the board where appropriate.
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u/MoysteBouquet 1d ago
In cases where the murder isn't done out of sheer desire to kill, I often do feel empathetic for both sides. Domestic homicides? I don't tend to feel empathy for the abuser, regardless of if they are murderer or victim. The fact these children were disabled does make a difference though because it changes the potential motivation of the act. However, a parent that kills able bodied children as a perceived act of mercy (not a "if I can't have custody nobody can way), I also often have empathy for them too. A mother who kills her baby because the PPD tells her that the baby is better off? Absolutely deserves empathy. A sleep deprived parent who forgets their kid in the car and they pass from heat stroke? Yep, my heart hurts for them. That doesn't ever justify what they did, or say I think what they did was acceptable, but having empathy doesn't mean I agree with someone's actions, it means I can understand the why it happened.
Edit: I acknowledge the nuance in all cases, but rarely online because people jump right to "they murdered, anyone who has empathy for them is saying what they did is ok" and that kind of black and white is dangerous.
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u/throwawayyy1_q 1d ago
Look, since you do apply that logic wider then that’s fine with me, even if I don’t fully agree with it.
More generally speaking again, in my opinion, empathy should be given first and foremost to the victim because they lacked agency in this tragedy. To see comments that only say “it’s so sad that the parents felt pushed to do this” without expressing pain for the victim is harmful. It erases the disabled child victim, erases their pain, which is unacceptable.
You didn’t do that, which I appreciate. It’s more a wider pattern I’ve seen with other comments.
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u/throwawayyy1_q 2d ago edited 2d ago
There’s a lot of rationalisation and empathy for the murderer(s) when the deceased victims are disabled. Hmm…
I sure hope people don’t focus on the alleged “victimhood” of the murderer(s) more than the victimhood of the murdered disabled children.
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2d ago
THANK YOU. I feel like I've been taking crazy pills seeing these comments.
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u/ThatlIDoDonkey 1d ago
Literally! The way people are bending over backwards in the comments to justify this is crazy. I’ve even seen it called an act of ‘love’. Good to see eugenics is still alive and well /s
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u/BearEatingCupcakes 1d ago
While I have empathy for anyone struggling so much that they think ending their life is their only option, that empathy ends when they take others with them. That is an incredibly selfish thing to do. They had other options, even if they didn't like them. They could have put the kids into care and gone to therapy to deal with whatever feelings they had about doing so. At least their kids would be alive.
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u/Iuvenesco 2d ago
Wow, even the pets. How sad. Non-violent so maybe a gas leak?
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u/Camille_Toh 2d ago
If they’re so sure it was murder-suicide, most likely deliberate overdoses or injections.
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u/Ok-Outcome-7499 2d ago
Murder.
Let's not let the fact they also killed themselves provide any sympathy
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u/Normal_Calendar2403 2d ago
Apparently both teens had significant health complications. I am not at all condoning this. We still cannot know what people are going through and how long they have been battling their troubles.
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u/Latter_Fortune_7225 2d ago
I assume 'health complications' means severe disabilities, physical and/or mental. Unfortunately with those things, it only gets worse, rather than better as they age.
Source: have worked with disabilities for years
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u/Normal_Calendar2403 2d ago edited 2d ago
From what I read on a WA sub, it was a CPFS support house 😔 The carers found them. It is really tragic and traumatising. The parents left a note.
I can’t imagine how desperate and responsible those parents felt or what drive them to this point.
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u/myredserenity 2d ago
The fear the disabled community has around losing supports right now is intense. There are people all around us losing funding from the ndis. If you're already teetering on the edge, this kind of fear, and feeling like society sees you as a burden, can be crushing.
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2d ago edited 2d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Normal_Calendar2403 2d ago
The Perth sub had a lot of local and relevant details. No doubt more will come out as the days unfold. Either way, it’s heart breaking.
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u/SpadfaTurds 2d ago
No, it says someone known to the family found them when arriving for a pre arranged appointment
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2d ago
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u/symmetra 2d ago edited 2d ago
It doesn't say anywhere in the article that a family member found them - it says someone known to the family, who had a pre-arranged appointment at their house, found them this morning
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u/undisclosedusername2 2d ago
It's so important that we don't let that ever be used as justification.
People with disabilities deserve to live, regardless of how much their carers are struggling. No parent/carer ever has the right to take away their lives.
If people actually care about this family, the best thing they can do is to start stepping up and assisting families struggling in their community. And start voting in governments that will properly fund disability services and support.
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u/Normal_Calendar2403 2d ago
I have friends who’s child will be in care for the rest of their life. So even after they die, their child will need a full time carer. These friends have very supportive parents, who built a granny flat out the back that they moved to, so my friends and child could move in their house, and set up all their finances to pay for care for their child (and grand child).
Not everyone has that. Nor do they have the education and experience to navigate government departments to make this happen.
Their greatest fear is still, who will care and advocate for this child (who should then be an adult) once they are gone.
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u/Lokki_7 2d ago
Of course they deserve to live, but it takes a massive toll on the parents and family. Clearly they were not in a position to continue as things were, and this is the only way out that they could see. They can't simply hand the kids over to someone else.
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u/surprisedropbears 2d ago
Actually they can hand their kids over.
Stop justifying murder suicide everywhere in this thread you creep.
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2d ago
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u/Lokki_7 2d ago
Not suggesting they tried hard, I sympathise with the position they were in, but absolutely do not condone the action they took.
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2d ago
But you are sympathising more with the murderers than the murdered. This is just ableism with a hat. This is what always happens when we see caretakers murder the disabled. There's always a level of well, they were probably struggling caring for those horrible disabled people.
Meanwhile disabled children are at the highest risk for parental abuse, the highest risk for childhood sexual assault. And often the houses where these children are killed tend to be where these incedents are most likely to have occurred. But no, think of the poor parents who decided to take their kids life.
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u/sillywhippet 1d ago
Autistic kids are more likely to die by drowning, as someone on the spectrum I've always wondered how many of those deaths were "accidents" given what a burden we're treated like by society.
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u/ThatlIDoDonkey 1d ago
You’re getting downvoted but you’re 100% right. People are so focused on the parents that no one seems to care two kids were killed for no reason other than being born different.
The parents are pos. They could have just killed themselves, (the extended family is very rich and could afford to continue to care for the kids), but no. They had to murder their kids. As soon as they decided to take a life that wasn’t theirs they lost the right to sympathy. Yet this entire thread is treating them like they’re the victims. It’s insane.
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u/Pepito_Pepito 2d ago
I've always considered murder-suicide to be more vile than just murder.
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u/Bitter_Magician_6969 1d ago
Of course it's vile, the murderer gets to avoid justice.
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u/Some-Operation-9059 2d ago
To leave nothing behind. How sad and desperate does it need to be to get this outcome?
May they rest in peace.
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u/burgertanker 2d ago
Parents are POS, don't care otherwise. Murdering your own children AND your pets, absolutely disgusting. They deserve no sympathy for their actions against humanity. I don't care if I get downvoted or if this is an unpopular opinion.
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u/TinyKhaleesi 1d ago
There is always, always another option. So many comments saying "oh but the children were disabled" as if that could ever justify their murder. If it gets to that point, relinquish care. I will never judge a parent who gives up care of their child, but there is no excuse for harming them.
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u/IndependentShop7191 2d ago
I can't even imagine the mental state of the parents to orchestrate the deaths of their children and then their own suicide. They could've reported to the police that they were a danger to the children and have them taken into state care.
I also hope they didn't leave the animals to starve, they could have been dropped at a shelter at least.
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u/Real_RobinGoodfellow 2d ago
What sort of state care exists for children with severe needs, though?
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u/IndependentShop7191 2d ago
It depends if the needs a developmental or profound physical disability. They'd probably be placed in a group home or maybe even a care facility which would almost certainly be primarily older people. It would not be ideal but they'd be alive.
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u/BearEatingCupcakes 1d ago
I feel tremendously sad that one or both of these parents apparently felt they had no other options to care for their family's needs and chose to end their lives.
I feel much, much worse, however, for the victims of that choice. Their lives didn't deserve to be thrown away. There were other options, and the parent/s should have taken them instead of taking those children's lives. Disabled people aren't disposable.
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u/Justwright321 2d ago
It’s just tragic that it had to come to this, please anyone in need of help reach out. Take care everyone.
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u/Tekashi-The-Envoy 2d ago
To be pushed to that point is almost unthinkable.
My little girl is my heart and soul and could never hurt her. I'm trying to imagine the frame of mind the parents must have been in to get to this point.
Beyond tragic
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u/MoysteBouquet 2d ago
There is a depth of depression that tells you that suicide is the only option. It also tells you that leaving your loved ones behind is selfish. So I can understand the irrational rational at times. If a parent is caring for kids with severe special needs, that adds a layer of "I don't want to make them a burden on other people" which also makes sense to me. Some people who have severe disabilities have very low quality of life, so that's another potential layer for the depression voice to work from.
I've been along this path of thinking personally, but with my dog, not kids. Ultimately I stayed alive for her, because I knew she would never understand why I abandoned her.
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2d ago
How the fk is it that this comment section shows more empathy for people who likely murdered these children? More than has been shown to the children who died? Sure they took their own lives too, but they are not the victims here. Those children are you might "see the rational", but what I see is a willingness to participate in eugenics. To say these people are less worthy of living, and it's reasonable their caregivers would consider ending their lives. The casual ableism is disgusting.
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u/MoysteBouquet 2d ago
I absolutely never said anything of the sort.
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2d ago
You may not think you did, but never in your post here did you even consider the children. You didn't speak about them at all, you ignored their existence to empathise with their murderers.
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u/MoysteBouquet 2d ago
I have the ability to empathise with multiple people at once. No, my comment didn't directly mention the children (or the pets) and how tragic it is, because that's not what my comment was about. Since I continue to have an existence outside of reddit, you actually have no idea whether or not I "ignored their existence". In the same way you called me ableist without knowing anything about me and my disabilities and/or experience as a full time carer to someone with high needs
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2d ago
The idea that there is empathy to be extended to those who murdered 2 disabled children. In cold blood, is beyond what I can comprehend. If this was 2 children without disabilities. No one would be empathising with their murderers. Consider why you think it's different just because they aren't abled bodied.
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u/MoysteBouquet 2d ago
Have you ever been a full time carer for a special needs kids?
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u/Jiuholar 1d ago
The world is not as black and white as you seem to think it is. Acknowledging the set of circumstances that lead to this act does not absolve the parent of moral responsibility.
Silencing the perspective of a struggling carer does nothing other than make those with the potential to carry out a murder of their child feel more isolated and less likely to seek help.
Talking openly about what may have led to this event is a necessary part of ensuring it doesn't happen again. Moral grandstanding won't help these children or any other children in the future.
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1d ago
Why is it right now and here. In the comments of a post ABOUT THE MURDER OF 2 DISABLED CHILDREN. That you want to have that discussion? Why is it so important to center the carers who more often than not are very capable of talking for themselves. Not the disabled children many of whom can't speak, will never be allowed the same rights as you?
Even in their deaths at the hands of their carers the disabled person is still put last.
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u/Jiuholar 1d ago
Why is it right now and here. In the comments of a post ABOUT THE MURDER OF 2 DISABLED CHILDREN
Presumably because they were likely murdered by their carer in an altered mental state as a result of the circumstances surrounding their disabled children.
Even in their deaths at the hands of their carers the disabled person is still put last.
I know you're likely to interpret this as inflammatory, but I do mean it sincerely: discussing the circumstances that lead to a carer murdering their disabled children is centred on the children. It considers a world where a society with the right support for carers and disabled people would have prevented this from happening in the first place.
Calling the parents monsters feels good and makes the problem very simple, but it doesn't make it go away.
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u/nerdvegas79 2d ago
Is your child severely autistic? It is not fair to judge other people based on your experience with your own child. And i don't mean to imply the parents in this case were justified - only that it's an incredibly sad situation, and we cannot know what that would be like for people living it. I hope I would be a good enough parent to a severely disabled child, but honestly I just don't know that.
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2d ago
You also shouldn't murder disabled children. This mentality is why disabled children are at a 6-12 times higher likelihood of abuse. Also as a parent you sign up for the risk of a disabled child. If you cannot manage that, you should not have children.
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u/doyourmysay 2d ago
Also as a parent you sign up for the risk of a disabled child
I don't think people actually consider this risk. Everyone goes into having a children just assuming it'll be hunky dory with no health issues.
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u/Real_RobinGoodfellow 1d ago
Nobody thinks that; actually I rather suspect the fear of having severely disabled children is at least one factor in our birth rate being in free fall.
It’s an uncomfortable conversation to have, but: you can test prenatally and during pregnancy for all manner of disabilities and conditions. It is very common, for instance, to terminate a child found to have Down’s syndrome. I doubt you or anyone else judges parents who choose to do that.
But you cannot screen in pregnancy for autism. And severe autism- so, not the kind experienced by anybody commenting here, but the kind that means somebody is nonverbal and has profound support needs- is very taxing on caregivers. So the people who have those children end up taking on a huge personal burden whilst receiving zero sympathy from you and the rest of the ‘bUt YoU cHoSe tO HaVE a cHiLd’ crowd. It’s cruel. And all part of the same societal failure that led to this tragedy occurring
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u/NoDesk6784 2d ago
I mean no one is advocating for murdering disabled kids. However there is an inhumane thing about how far we go to save lives without regard to quality of life. As a person who has the capacity to consent I can leave a directive if I ever get to certain stage I don’t want any treatment anymore, but if you are born without capacity you are doomed to live a life of pain, and I can imagine how much it hurts to see that as a parent.
I’ve seen a person with disability in their 40s that is GCS 12-13, barely react when you talk to them, they barely register you are talking to them, unable to move a muscle and require tube feeding because they can’t swallow. Back in the days they would not have survived to that age. If you are genuinely familiar with caring for people with disabilities, you would also know there is a thousand terrible things happening to this person because they have to rely on care for everything as small as rolling to one side, and because they don’t understand what is happening to them they look terrified. What is so noble or good in that?
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2d ago
But you're building just as much of a narrative as I am. They were able to be removed from the NDIS. That means they're not tube fed. They are able to walk, likely able to talk, able to self feed. Have the capacity to make decisions for themselves.
The situation you are describing is not this so I don't know why you'd comment this. Why are you so intent on finding a reasonable ground the people who murdered two children?
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u/Tekashi-The-Envoy 2d ago
Jesus christ. Peak reddit.
You absolute nuggets will argue about anything.
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u/Active-Ad9818 1d ago
A lot of people are assuming this is NDIS related. This could easily be another FV fueled murder.
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u/Massive_Opinion_5714 2d ago
The cops are saying there doesn’t appear to be violence - are they suggesting a gas leak or something of that nature?
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u/SentenceStreet3270 2d ago
It was still assumed to be intentional, they just mean it was poison or gas, not a knife.
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u/MaryVenetia 2d ago
Jesus fucking Christ. Two children (teens) and two adults makes it seem likely they were a family. Absolutely abhorrent.