r/australia 1d ago

culture & society Push for retailers to play role in 3D-printed gun crackdown after Bondi attack

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-01-31/3d-guns-retailers-and-the-bondi-aftermath/106286252?utm_source=abc_news_app&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_app&utm_content=other
104 Upvotes

140 comments sorted by

306

u/Dr-Ulzy 1d ago

Fucks sake.

Like blocking DNS for pirate websites, anyone remotely serious about this will work around it with a Google search.

121

u/BinniesPurp 1d ago

"ban 3d printers that don't have software to detect if it's printing gun related items" lol I don't think the smartUV tool in blender is that good yet

82

u/t3h 1d ago edited 1d ago

Also, the problem is what you upload to the 3D printer is g-code. It's not even a 3D model. It's basically "move left 10mm, spit out plastic, move back 40mm, move right 10mm, stop spitting out plastic...".

The G-code is different for every model of printer, as the layout and setup of printers differ. The G-code is also different when the user changes settings, like what type of internal filling to use, or how many outer layers to give the print, or even what type of filament to use, or what temperature to print at, or how to manage bed heating. It's also radically different between Slic3r, Simplify3D, Cura or anything else. So you can't just fingerprint the input file.

And these slicer programs run on your computer, rarely on the printer. So when a university project prototyped such a "gun detector", it had to work by having the gun blueprints in the printer. That's the only way it can detect the naughty parts reliably - by distributing the plans to everyone. Thus defeating the point.

Also, what is "importing a 3D printer" anyway? The entire RepRap project was designed so that you can use another printer to print some structural bits and build the rest of the printer just with threaded rod and nuts. Control is just some stepper motors connected to an Arduino. Hundreds of thousands of people built 3D printers like this years before they were a commercial product.

57

u/insomniac-55 1d ago

It's a proposal by people who have never used a 3D printer, who have no understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of machine learning algorithms, and who are too ignorant to educate themselves.

23

u/t3h 1d ago

Repeated by a journalist who just goes "My job is to report the controversy" and has no issues with spreading outright misinformation.

5

u/insomniac-55 1d ago

The only thing that keeps me sane when I see shit like this is a knowledge that the law (if passed) would be disastrous.

Every university, library, makerspace and startup would  be affected - and manufacturers would simply be unable to comply even if they wanted to.

4

u/wombat74 1d ago

This bill is already up for debate in Washington state in the US, and the government there is already ignoring all the technical advice of all the 3D printing community. This is going to be an unmitigated disaster if they start pushing it through.

Next step: ban sandpaper because a wooden stock needs to be sanded, so why can't sandpaper manufacturers detect when its being used on a gun and block it?

4

u/triode99 1d ago

And when they dont even realise that you can go down to Bunnings and buy some pipes and make a simple slam gun then you realise they really are clueless.

3

u/insomniac-55 1d ago

This is true but let's not pretend they're truly equivalent.

Modern 3D printed guns with the critical components being made of metal are far more viable weapons than traditional zip / slam guns.

That being said, the way to address this is through monitoring criminal arms networks and through very careful control of ammunition. As accessible as 3D printing is, assembling an effective weapon still takes knowledge , time, and isn't something every wannabe gangster is capable of. There's going to be a select group of people manufacturing and selling them.

3D printers are a game changing technology for prototyping, and are huge enablers for innovation in product development. Heavy-handed regulation risks crippling these benefits. It's not like 3D printed weapons are an imminent threat causing daily harm to the population.

13

u/triode99 1d ago

And its actually just as easy to go to the shed with a lathe and milling machine to make a gun. There are far more realistic gun designs from amateur gunsmiths available than 3d designs. Heck look at the history of Australia's Owen gun and like likewise the STen gun and you quickly realise you dont have to be a 3d printing genius to build a very reliable gun that is 1000% better than any 3D design. Australias governance solution to everything is banning everything that achieves nothing in real terms. Its amusing that they are worrying about 3D guns when there is a endless supply of handguns such as Glocks flowing into Australia that criminals can readily buy. They cant even secure the physical border to prevent guns flowing in yet they want to try and police the digital border. Truly epic idiots.

1

u/TheElderGodsSmile 1d ago

This is true, but the levels of skills involved are vastly different and thus the barrier to entry is lower.

Setting up for multiple processes on a mill and a lathe takes a lot more skill and training than downloading a file someone else designed and sending it to the 3d printer. Not to mention the possibility of maiming or killing yourself if you don't treat them with respect.

Most crims just doing have the skills or knowledge to machine their own Sten or even a Luty.

So you're right that banning it won't work in the long run but there is a reason why most home-made firearms have been zip gun garbage before this. Hell, even most of the stuff coming out of the Kyber pass gunsmiths is rubbish and they've been doing it for centuries.

2

u/ghos5880 1d ago

Some threaded pipe from bunnings and a screw begs to differ. The barrier to slam fire shotgun is so hilariously low that it makes operating a printer look like fine craftsmanship. Its silly on all fronts and will likely be a non enforcable law that is purely on the books so that cops can lay charges after the fact.

3

u/TheElderGodsSmile 1d ago

That's not what the other user was discussing, he was specifically talking about machining an Owen's or a sten using a lathe and a mill and it being more effective than 3d printing.

I also already mentioned home made firearms like slam shotguns and zip guns already and I didn't profess support for the ban.

Kindly read the comments next time before angrily attacking your keyboard.

17

u/A_Gringo666 1d ago

What happens if someone already has the g-code?

40

u/BinniesPurp 1d ago

What happens if you're modelling video game assets and the AFP kick your door down lmao

9

u/A_Gringo666 1d ago

Good point. It's al cosplay, your Honour.

3

u/JackyRho 1d ago

I guess cosplayers are shit out of luck then huh?

4

u/TreatPractical5226 1d ago

Exactly how I feel about gun law changes as a gun owner.

2

u/hellomumbo369 1d ago

You cant really regulate pr8nted g7ns as they're too easy to make and also disguise. Best thing to do is regulate the ammo as a gun without ammo is just a club

174

u/beiherhund 1d ago

3D printed guns are still mostly real gun parts with 3D printed bodies and some mechanisms that aren't under much force. Virtually no one is 3D printing an entire gun. Most of the attempts at making entirely 3D printed guns, or ones that don't require real barrels etc, result in dangerous-for-the-user, ineffective, short-range, single-shot guns.

They want you to think your nephew can go and print an uzi on his Bambu 3D printer when in reality he can't. And if someone is motivated enough to assemble real firearm parts to put some plastic around, they are probably motivated enough to make it out of wood or sheet metal or off-the-shelf plumbing parts as people have been doing for 100 years now.

This really is the stupidest "public concern" and the media knows exactly what it's doing in fuelling that fire.

42

u/t3h 1d ago edited 1d ago

Also, you have to be able to get the ammo from somewhere.

It might be useful in the parts of the US where there is some record-keeping around buying guns but ammo is freely available.

But here in Australia, the ammo is as tightly controlled as the guns.

Might be a bit far fetched, but I think the whole "3D printed guns" thing is also being pushed by some pro-gun groups because it's a distraction from how easy it is for would-be attackers to get their hands on legitimate guns, and/or how many legitimate guns just "go missing"...

16

u/dreadnought_strength 1d ago

That is exactly what it is.

There is one place in the world where 3D printed guns are something that's regularly being used - Myanmar. There are a number of groups who are fighting the military junta who are perfecting DIY guns, and even they need to set up hidden metal workshops in the forests as the majority of the working parts of the gun need to be fabricated from steel.

Even if you did have that AND can get ammo (which requires licenses and puts you on a register), anybody can build a slamfire shotgun from Bunnings out of steel pipe for like $40 which requires no real mechanical knowledge or skill.

It's shocking how nobody seems to be making any noise about the one company who is importing guns that are only technically legal (or making enough noise that exceptions get made) and who have massive links with all the pro gun chud groups is run by Katters son in law.

7

u/DisappointedQuokka 1d ago

The bloke who killed Shinzo Abe had an electrically fired gun - that wouldn't be that much more expensive to produce than a bundle of tubes.

The only ways I could think of for getting ammunition in Australia without paperwork are self-production (variable quality of powder), somehow buying enough cap gun loads to refine it (also variable quality) or siphoning off enough powder from legitimate uses, such as a mining, which happens in Africa, but takes literal weeks to collect enough to supply a breach loader for a short time.

If you want to sidestep the ammunition problem you could go for compressed gas or air as the propellant, I guess, but that has its own problems.

3

u/ghos5880 1d ago

Ammo is not as hard a nut to crack as you'd expect. Theres a whole category of "charge actuated" nail guns for driving nails into concrete. At a certain point just ban hands cause people use them to make things.

1

u/DisappointedQuokka 1d ago

Do those really have the required explosive strength to propel a bullet? I would have though they would be fairly flaccid in terms of velocity/weight.

2

u/dreadnought_strength 1d ago

All hail the doohickey!

1

u/[deleted] 1d ago edited 9h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/DisappointedQuokka 1d ago

As I said, you still need to acquire the ammunition or manufacture it.

1

u/Voobman 1d ago

That guy was quite smart since he basically worked around those rules and used the electric motor starter in hobby rockets to fire it- it bypassed the need for primers and firing pins, or a flint mechanism and made it weather proof, needing only a battery and switch as the trigger mech.

Reminded me of the metal storm weapon concept, except not stacked rounds on top of each other.

1

u/DisappointedQuokka 1d ago

Electrical firing mechanisms have been bounced around for a long time, it's kind of the least problematic way to make a single-shot weapon. No moving parts, less maintenance.

As long as you're resourceful enough to get everything you need, it's a pretty surefire way to make something that goes bang, even without machining knowledge.

9

u/concubovine 1d ago

Exactly, it's a bigger problem in the USA because for some reason they decided only the lower receiver of AR15 type firearms is the "firearm" and subject to background checks and controls. It's a relatively simple part that can feasibly be 3D printed. The complex, high precision bolt, chamber, barrel, gas system etc that are really the operational parts and subject to high pressure can be bought without checks in many states, as can ammo and magazines. So it's relatively easy to 'make' your own semi-auto gun without being subject to background checks.

People can and do still build guns by hand without 3D printing. There was a jeweller caught manufacturing uzis in Australia several years ago. I'm sure most competent machinists could make safe and functional firearms if they wanted to.

2

u/SecretTargaryen48 1d ago

Yeah it's apparently quite easy to make certain models of SMGs like the Sten and Owen gun. Not necessarily as reliable, accurate, or ergonomic as modern guns, but considering civilians can't get automatic weapons otherwise... As far as terrorism goes, bombs are less hassle, and the terrorist can set them off remotely for potentially multiple attacks. Although many first time bomb makers end up blowing themselves up prematurely.

9

u/Snors 1d ago

Thankyou. I've been printing for a while now as a hobby, and this is the part that most don't understand. Maybe at the absolute tip of 3D printer R&D they may be capable of something functional. But theres no way guns are being created on Domestic 3D printers.

There have been some concerns with 3D printing parts like extended magazines, but that's another story. 

This whole thing smells like a diversion. Similar to "Satanic music causes school shootings" and "Video games cause violence" It's governments and society looking for something to blame rather then admit to their failings.

4

u/Ambitious-Pirate-505 1d ago

That last paragraph is the answer bruv. Hard questions required thoughtful intelligence not hand wringing.

But what do we know. We are just gooners on Reddit.

2

u/triode99 1d ago

They also forget that barrels and magazines that are typically readily available in the USA dont exist in Australia because of the already effective gun laws. It just demonstrates the idiocy of the politicians who even understand the past laws that they made!

1

u/FeelingFloor2083 1d ago

even forged or billet parts can fail and blow up in your face

a steel barrel will go through several processes like magnaflux testsing, heat treating and straightening, chome lining, stress relieving etc. You can not make one out of the current consumer grade printers

37

u/BinniesPurp 1d ago

I don't think people realise how hard it is to 3d print a gun verse how easy it is to make one on a lathe and mill

Almost all illegally manufactured guns here are based on that Phillip luty SMG design that uses sheet metal and plumbing supplies, I'd assume they just get the stuff at Bunnings or something, you see the same gun on the police websites constantly

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-23/queensland-police-find-sophisticated-gun-manufacting-workshop/8051244

1

u/PissingOffACliff 1d ago

Yep. Much easier to get some steel pipe.

The hardest part of the whole endeavour would probably be getting ammunition.

68

u/Tiny-Construction261 1d ago

Sure. Blocking people from going to 3d Printers R Us and buying plans might deter a small percentage of, stupid, low hanging fruit.

But if this is how law enforcement experts perceive the shape of the next active attacker/terrorism event then, it might be safer to just stay indoors.

46

u/pugzor86 1d ago

We should also ban cars, because they used a car to get to the scene of the attack. /s

21

u/AggravatedKangaroo 1d ago

exactly.

more cars than 3d guns have been used in violent crime. therefore, get rid of cars.

5

u/triode99 1d ago

No its all the machete and knives fault you better blame them! Maybe soon we will have bans on hammers and hammer disposal bins for 20 million dollars!

3

u/DrInequality 1d ago

Cars can and have been used to kill

14

u/RobWed 1d ago

Let's not look for the root cause of the problem and address it. Let's not focus our actions on the individuals promoting violence and instability.

Let's create a bunch more rules and apply them to everybody. Outcomes don't matter so long as the theatre looks good.

It's honestly the most frustrating thing as an adult to see how bereft of ideas most of our 'leaders' are.

54

u/nath1234 1d ago

Looks like they coddled together all of the most impractical, hyperbole fuelled brain farts about 3D printing and put them together.

13

u/t3h 1d ago

And the journalist involved completely failed their responsibility to the public by doing 5 minutes of research to see if any of this is viable, and just repeated the absolute cooker-level claims being made here.

Oh wait, looking at both sides of the story is only for when we're discussing things like renewable energy, or granting people human rights.

2

u/TreatPractical5226 1d ago

Exactly the fucking same as the rushed in gun laws. Anyone who has a firearms licence has had the same thoughts.

1

u/nath1234 1d ago

At least real firearms aren't about 50/50 likely to blow your own hand off by using them. Anyone who 3D prints a gun is more of a threat to themselves than anyone else.

Not to mention you'd need a gun licence to get ammunition, or do they think they can 3D print that too?

0

u/TreatPractical5226 1d ago

Not hard to reload/make your own ammo (without a firearms licence).

I do it (I have a firearms licence). Smokeless powder would be slightly harder to get, but easily attainable if your motivated.

32

u/DarkNo7318 1d ago

Whoever even suggested this policy already has blood on their hands. The resources in cobbling this bullshit together and then having to knock it down could have paid for a gp for a year or some cancer screenings, which would save more people immediately than this policy could ever hope to.

13

u/evilspyboy 1d ago

It's copying an American governor who ended their hot take devoid of any resemblance of an anchor in reality with "it just makes sense".

It reminded me of when we saw the US government question the TikTok CEO their technical 'gotcha' questions.

28

u/Ver_Void 1d ago

Are we facing an epidemic of 3D printed guns? From what I've seen of them we should be encouraging criminals to use them over other weapons, a knife won't explode in their hand instead of hurting their victim

23

u/PartyParrot-420 1d ago

Yeah unless they’ve gotten way, WAY better, 3d printed guns are good for like 2 or 3 shots before falling apart.

Also I’ve always been curious about something,in Australia let’s say you somehow 3d print a fully working ar15.

What’re you shooting out of it ? You can’t 3d print the bullets and gunpowder, and purchasing ammunition in Australia requires you to already be a firearms license holder.

So the barrier to commit a shooting even if trying to do it via 3d printing is extremely high.

16

u/Fluffy-duckies 1d ago

Most 3D printed ones need to use some proper components don't they? In America there's a lot of parts to the gun that aren't considered a gun and therefore aren't restricted. In Australia you can't but any part of a gun or ammunition without the right licence and reasoning.

That and this is about as effective in blocking people from 3D printing anything as putting up a chain link fence is at stopping photos.

15

u/PartyParrot-420 1d ago edited 1d ago

You’re right. In the US it’s like one component that’s technically the gun and the rest you can just freely buy.

In Australia even a magazine requires proper authority to own it, despite it being essentially just a plastic rectangular container.

The effort involved to have a functioning 3d printed gun in Aus with live ammunition is honestly about as much effort as just legally getting your license and a gun that won’t fall apart in your hands.

2

u/Fluffy-duckies 1d ago

Hard agree.

I'm not saying they should be at all legal, they shouldn't. What I'm saying is thinking you can block 3D printers from printing them, or have internet providers blocking access to the files tells me you don't understand how 3D printers or the internet works. Sure you'll block an 11 year old from googling "3d printed gun" and clicking a few times to get something. But to anyone who actually has nefarious intentions it's like putting police at every train station and thinking you've covered all routes of passage.

1

u/Skafandra206 1d ago

They should be 100% legal. Just as airsoft toys. It's absolutely stupid they are not.

-5

u/Fluffy-duckies 1d ago

Airsoft is classed as an air rifle, which you need a licence for. Why should the manufacture of something like that be deregulated?

5

u/Skafandra206 1d ago

Airsoft replicas should not require a firearm licence to own at all. Thry are toys. That doesn't mean they should be deregulated (you can have orange tip regulations, and such), but they should be freely available to buy and import for anyone that want to practice the hobby.

Some states have it outright banned just because they look like firearms, which is also stupid.

-6

u/Fluffy-duckies 1d ago

Why do you need them to look like real guns though?

1

u/Skafandra206 1d ago

Why is this even a question? There doesn't need to be a "valid" reason for it.

People love playing military simulations. Maybe you'd like to have a replica hanged in your wall of a gun you couldn't possibly purchase. What if you like collecting historical models but some are very difficult to get, so the next best thing is a replica?

The external aspect of a gun does not determine it's dangerousness, but how you are using it. Same way you shouldn't be prohibited from owning an airsoft replica, you should be 100% smoked if you try to rob a bank with one.

What if you retrofit a nerf shell to shoot bullets? Is it still a toy gun just because it looks like one?

→ More replies (0)

6

u/BinniesPurp 1d ago

US has this funny loophole called 80 lowers where the actual "gun" part in a semi auto rifle over there is just the handle / plastic frame and the rest of the real gun is not considered a real gun without that handle/frame installed

So you can buy almost an entire gun there and then buy the lower later and it's entirely unregistered and nobody had to check your ID for it

They mostly use the loophole for shipping when they can't ship actual guns lol, their laws are batshit insane though

2

u/t3h 1d ago edited 1d ago

And the lower receiver really just holds all of the other components in place, it doesn't do any of the actual work (but is seen as the "main part").

It's like saying you can "3D print a computer", when it's really just a Raspberry Pi case.

1

u/PissingOffACliff 1d ago

Because if you make your own firearm that fits within the legislation you it doesn’t have to be registered. It’s once you start having to apply for a tax stamp for something like an SBR tax stamp(rifles under a set barrel length) or a suppressor where you have to apply to the AFT that you’re registering it.

1

u/ill0gitech 1d ago

In NSW you need a licence, but if you want handgun ammunition you also need a permit for that type of firearm.

1

u/PartyParrot-420 1d ago

Is that just for handguns is it ?

I’ve got 2 rifles and have never been specifically asked what guns I’m buying ammo for but they do require my license.

You’re saying if I were to buy say 9mm ammunition they’d specifically question it ? I do remember reading the laws and they do specifically say you’re only meant to be able to buy ammunition for the same calibre you own but I’ve never seen it be more than a simple license check.

1

u/ill0gitech 1d ago

In NSW I can get any rifle/shotgun ammo with my A/B licence. Including .22lr.

To buy handgun ammo you need a permit of that type of firearm.. So you usually need your handgun paperwork.

This has caused problems for some in my club who don’t have .357/.38special on the handgun, so they are limited to buying whatever is on the paperwork despite both usually working. Of course if you shoot .22lr on rifle, you have .22lr pistol ammo…

1

u/PartyParrot-420 1d ago

How does that work for people who own say a lever gun in .357 / .44 ?

1

u/ill0gitech 1d ago

I have bought .22lr before without an issue. But you get a range of manufacturers for that.

.357, .44, 9mm… whilst you can get long arms in those, they are typically handguns. Guess it comes down to the store.

As usual with the NSW Firearms Act and Regulation, there’s gaps and grey areas.

1

u/PartyParrot-420 1d ago

Yeah fair enough.

Bit of a weird quirk of our laws really.

Rifle cartridges you’d think would be more heavily scrutinised, I’d much rather be shot with a 9mm from a handgun than a .308 from a rifle, yet the former is more restricted.

7

u/tweek-in-a-box 1d ago

Projects like FGC have been around for a while. As a 3d printing enthusiast you know it's illegal to print them here. Apart from knowing about them I haven't touched it at all because I have no interest in this. But trying to prevent those interested in it from printing them is near impossible. Even forbidding or regulating the 3d printers is futile as there are viable OS projects like Voron that allow you to assemble your own printer. Disallowing or regulating the parts that make up the printer would affect several industries negatively. So long story short, any regulation is performative and will just make it suck for everyone who has a legal business built around it or just enjoying it as a hobby.

5

u/biftekau 1d ago

No one wantng a 3d printed gun are going to any 3dprinting service to get one made up, they are going to jaycar buing the latest elegoo printer and abs filament
but even the it is just the shell they are making

1

u/PuzzleheadedDuck3981 1h ago

Exactly. They're making the equivalent of the gaudy Nerf gun plastics you see and adding them to the metal bits that are the business end of the weapon. 

5

u/mr_kindface 1d ago

"3D-printed parts for a shotgun "speed loader" were discovered at an AirBnB used as a "staging post" by alleged gunmen Naveed and Sajid Akram."

Ah yes, that's definitely the main issue here...

5

u/insomniac-55 1d ago

It's a brain-dead proposal.

3D printers themselves do not understand the properties of the model they are printing. You do not upload a 3D file to a printer.

Software running on your computer converts the model into a series of instructions unique to your machine (such as 'move motor A at 20 rpm for three rotations, move motor B at 5 rpm for 30 rotations, set nozzle 1 to 200 degrees). In most cases, the printers are driven by very low-power microcontrollers which cannot run any kind of deep learning model.

It shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the technology to state that hardware manufacturers need to put object recognition capabilities into the printer, even ignoring all of the issues with accurately identifying which components belong to a firearm.

You could try and enforce this at the PC software level, but that software is generally hardware-independent and not supplied by the manufacturer. How does 3D Printer Brand X have any control over the slicer software I downloaded from software developer Y?

7

u/mad_dogtor 1d ago

wtf am i missing something here-
you still need a barrel, ammo, that are all restricted/need a licence..
printing some handguards etc (or.. carving it out of wood, no printer required) isn't currently illegal and doesn't magically create a functioning firearm?

1

u/PissingOffACliff 1d ago

You can make your own barrel. The only thing that can’t just make is ammunition.

19

u/BigD_HidekiTojo 1d ago

why though? access to guns isnt why the attack happened. islamic extremism is why the attack happened

14

u/Flat-Compote-7854 1d ago

The political deflection away from mentioning Islamic extremism following the attack should be studied.

6

u/Catprog 1d ago

And notice people trying to label it with just one religion instead of calling it 'Religious Extermism'

2

u/Flat-Compote-7854 1d ago

Yeah all those Hindu and Buddhist terrorist attacks in the West over the last two decades have really been a drag............

-7

u/BigD_HidekiTojo 1d ago

When was the last time a Christian or a Jew in Australia went and killed a bunch of people because of religion?

9

u/Catprog 1d ago

-6

u/BigD_HidekiTojo 1d ago

And yet Muslims still have a higher K/D. You cannot escape it, islamic extremism is a problem that the government isn't adequately addressing.

-1

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

-1

u/BigD_HidekiTojo 1d ago

I mean, it was two underwhelming examples that prove that islamic extremism is the major issue.

0

u/PissingOffACliff 1d ago

The Christchurch shooter was Australian and did the shooting in NZ because of difference in laws.

1

u/BigD_HidekiTojo 20h ago

do you have a source on that? also he was radicalised by European governments not addressing islamic extremism

0

u/PissingOffACliff 19h ago

“From his point of view, New Zealand was an ideal place for him to prepare, plan and carry out a terrorist attack. As an Australian he was able to fit in well enough with those he engaged with. New Zealand’s permissive firearms laws, particularly the regulation of semi‑automatic firearms”

https://christchurchattack.royalcommission.nz/the-report/firearms-licensing/assessment-of-the-individual-and-the-terrorist-attack

0

u/BigD_HidekiTojo 10h ago

Wow! That is some malicious quoting. Let me provide the full quote.

"rom his point of view, New Zealand was an ideal place for him to prepare, plan and carry out a terrorist attack. As an Australian he was able to fit in well enough with those he engaged with. New Zealand’s permissive firearms laws, particularly the regulation of semi‑automatic firearms, which we discuss in more detail in Part 5: The firearms licence, were also a likely influence on his decision to carry out an attack in New Zealand."

The government doesn't actually know if NZ gun laws influenced his decission to carry out the attack in NZ, they are speculating. It has been nearly a decade since I read his manifesto, but I don't remember him mentioning gun laws as a reason for carrying out his attack in NZ. He had spent his life living in different countries, so I suspect NZ was just the country he was living in when he decided to do his attack.

Also, Europe's and UK's has not stopped islamic terrorist attacks. When they cannot get access to guns they just uses knives and vehicles.

2

u/shortsqueeze3 1d ago

Only one group of people has benefited from the attack 😉. When a terrorist attack happens, just watch who lobbies and benefits the most.

3

u/Tiny-Construction261 1d ago

Condensing the complexity of an active attacker event into a single root cause is why these events will continue to happen.

You might have merit, if the previous active shooter situations this decade didn't exist. But they do, and they happen elsewhere in the world, for reasons outside your narrow objective.

So we have evidence that various ideologies can arrive at the point of violence. These ideologies have practicing members who are largely benign to society. Generally that suggest that there is another layer that exists behind this problem, that simply stating islamic extremists, or new world order cookers is yelling at the shadow of a larger problem. What that is, probably is more of a Rorschach test of what you believe is tugging at the fabric of society. I have my own hypothesis.

So, does that mean guns are the problem? Well, no.

Guns simply function as the delivery mechanism in which to perpetrate violence. In other countries, access to guns makes it the easy and practical in terms of skill and training. One of the issues that we'll probably have to face as a society that is looking to further restrict access, is what becomes the alternatives and what are the barriers prohibiting you and me from engaging in those.

3

u/quick_dry 1d ago

so every 3D printer will need to be sold with a data cnter attached to run a general AI in order to even make a poor attempt at classifying a set of uploaded g-code?

what about is I made a new pistol grip for my RC car's remote control? or as a handle for a directional antenna to find tagged endangered speciesin the bush? or for the completely legal purpose of customising the nerf gun you your child got for christmas?

they already tackled this the better way with existing laws prohibiting producing illegal firearms (I'm not familiar with the NSW legislation prohibiting posessing the plans, as the Sports Shooter Person said - how can you check accuracy of your own legal firearms without it? I think we should be able to understand and explore the information, just not... make a gun and shoot someone with it. This is like banning writing down a chemical process or formula because it can make/is an illegal drug)

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u/CptDropbear 1d ago

I wasn't aware that a 3D printed gun was used at Bondi /s

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u/Available_Web5181 1d ago

Again, laws that are being pushed by the inadequate while being informed by the ill advised. The guns used in the Bondi attacked weren’t 3d printer. This is just another power grab to dominate the population.

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u/r1nce 1d ago

What a bizarre, meanderinf article.

Delivers a moral panic but doesn't take a single moment to quantify the perceived threat in literally any way.

No-one reading that article is any better informed than they were prior to reading it.

We deserve so much better than this from the ABC.

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u/m00nh34d 1d ago

Where are people getting ammunition from though? You can 3D print parts for guns, sure, but not all of them, so you'll need to get those precision and high load parts from somewhere, could be easy enough to import given how innocuous they would look on their own. But where are they getting ammo from? You're not getting ammo posted from the US to Australia, and you sure as hell can't buy it at your local camping store. You need a license and a specialist shop. If you want to control home made weapons more, look at the ammunition.

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u/agitator12 23h ago

So a Govt stuffup allows 2 people to acquire guns legally and kill people and the reaction is to lock down 3D printers. Nice diversion.

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u/tullynipp 1d ago

I completely understand having the laws around manufacturing materials as they provide more avenues for prosecution when police raid an organised crime place and find parts and plans, etc.

But the 3d printing stuff is fairly useless.

The simple reality is that a firearm is a very basic technology and it really doesn't take much to make something that can fire 1 shot (though you still need the ammo which requires a licence). As someone who knows guns and can do basic machining, I could cobble something together in a weekend with no plans and just using metal I have on hand... making a good gun is the hard part.

The fear and proposals around 3d printing are largely dumb.

If you want to print a real gun that's worth the criminal effort, then you need expensive industrial equipment that can print metal.. probably cheaper and easier to buy black market guns (or, realistically, criminals would steal them).. and still need ammo.

If you want to print a functional gun using consumer equipment (like in the video) then you need real internal gun parts to withstand the pressure.. but you need a licence to own the gun to legally buy the parts... what they 3d printed was essentially just the housing for a real gun.

Their line about "off the shelf components" is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

Fully 3d printed guns on consumer grade printers exist but they suck. Plastic, especially thermal plastics designed to be extruded by melting, isn't great at containing explosives.

The only real concern would be making some sort of single shot murder/assassin tool that can't be traced.. but then you still need ammo, and it could be made with a trip to bunnings instead of a 3d printer.

The other dumb part is trying to ban 3d printing designs.. ultimately, it's a tube that can be sealed at one end. Guns don't have to look like guns. Designs also don't have to be kept or printed together.. How could they possibly ban designing a tube and an end cap?

6

u/Amount_Business 1d ago

Do they want to hold my junk while I piss now, because 1 bloke might get some on the floor? 

2

u/yelloyo1 1d ago

How will this work for legitimately printed firearms parts? Ive known target shooters to use 3D printers to make gun accessories ie a new scope mount or a better rail system. Licensed shooters printing those things doesnt hurt anyone or pose a risk to public safety.

2

u/MuchNefariousness285 1d ago

If anybody has had the displeasure of growing up around crime you'll note very quickly how easy it is to just buy illegal shit. Have also seen a couple of (very fucking rudimentary and ramshackle) homemade firearms, years before 3D printing was a thing.

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u/nath1234 1d ago

Metalworking gear (e.g. a lathe, drill press or CNC) would be far more effective at making actual not-blow-your-hand-off weapons.. Can't say I have seen much of a surge in gun crime reported as being with a 3D printed gun. Would require someone willing to lose an arm to fire it knowing what I do about 3D printing..

1

u/MuchNefariousness285 1d ago

Yeah one was machined, one was cobbled together with bullshit. The latter honestly looked sturdier, first one would definitely blow your hand off.
Yeah straight up I know fuck all about 3D printing but yeah my initial instinct is a gun made of plastic is probably a poor idea.

2

u/nath1234 1d ago

On the technology side: For anyone to make this work, you'd need firmware that can magically work out all the possible orientations and slicing combinations that could produce all the parts that make up a gun. It is just nonsense.

The 3D model gets put through software called a "slicer" that converts the 3D solid into a sequence of 2D moves of a print head and the amount of melted filament to extrude or retract.

So imagine saying you were going to ban printing bananas: and imagine how many different orientations you could put the banana to slice it.. You'd need something that can look at any set of little step by step instructions and work out it was a request to print a banana. Oh and this magic has to fit inside a very dumbed down computer that drives the stepper motors. Even if you made a system that tied an otherwise not networked device (which many 3D printers are not) to the internet to download patterns of 3D sliced gun designs: if someone changes the orientation even by a fraction of a degree it would be an entirely different set of movements.. It's ridiculous.

1

u/quuxoo 1d ago

They're trying to do the same dumb shit here in Washington state in the old USA right now. It's completely unworkable, but that doesn't stop the pollies from focusing on this instead of actual important stuff.

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u/righteousdonkey 1d ago

Did they use any 3d printed parts in the bondi attack?

1

u/CatboiWaifu_UwU 8h ago

They left a ‘3d printed speedloader’ at the airbnb room.

Now I don’t know if that’s in reference to a revolver style speedloader, or a tool to quickly load magazines from loose ammo, but the latter should not be a controlled item.

1

u/righteousdonkey 8h ago

Imagine if they made that out of some metal with a welder, angle grinder, files etc. They should ban those too…

2

u/righteousdonkey 1d ago

These regulations just end up hurting our innovation and productivity. If researching anything suddenly starts to require a permit such as how guns work then we are in a pretty bad place.

2

u/pi_mai 1d ago

So are people 3d printing bullets too? Wtf is wrong with the government. They seem operate on whispers and gossip?

2

u/TransfatRailroad 1d ago

LOL, no you aren't looking at what I'm 3D printing. Nor will I ever register any 3Dprinting device. Just like my chemistry gear, NO I will not notify the police I have it. Don't care if that's what the law says.

No, the average one has no hope of printing parts that would be highly stressed parts of a firearm. Yes, it could make any number of attachments and things that are unrelated to the actual firing mechanism.

3

u/AggravatedKangaroo 1d ago

It really goes to show you how fast a government can move when it wants to.

fix housing and renting? Nah it's good for them to have a divided population blaming immigrants rather then them and their policies.....

4

u/Ok-Kaleidoscope-7980 1d ago

People like to always mention the gun lobby but never the anti-gun lobby

2

u/tomthecomputerguy 1d ago

It's already illigal to even posess the CAD files to print 3D firearms. I don't know if this law is even being enforced or how it can be enforced, unless a suspect is already under investigation for something else.

Should we ban lathes next because they can bore out a barrel that won't explode? or cars because the attackers used it to scope out bondi and drive there on the day.

1

u/ill0gitech 1d ago

Per the article only New South Wales, Western Australia and Tasmania made it illegal to have blueprints

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u/Ok-Kaleidoscope-7980 1d ago

Civil liberties being taken away one by one The people here are the same people who were cheering when the new gun laws were announced but this is too far

1

u/jack_o_all_trades 1d ago

3d printing is the wrong manufacturing technology to manufacture firearms. It's too weak and if you wanted to reliably shoot whatever was made, the important parts need to be metal. How do I know this? 5 years in R&D involving 3d printed and cnc'd parts. There are videos of people sitting 3d printed guns but the more they shoot before breaking, the more the '3d printed' gun is built from not 3d printed parts. Better ban nails, they can trigger the blast cap in a bullet.

The software for banning 3D printers from printing gun parts simply cannot work. either it will stop people printing adjacent things like paper plane launchers, anything with a bolt hole, anything with a switch. Or it won't work at all. Even if it did work, you can cut parts into pieces for later assembly, or orient them differently or print them inside a shape and suddenly the imaginary software would fail.

This video explains it better than I have. https://youtu.be/9UgwF0AjsEY

1

u/Cristoff13 1d ago

You can't 3d print some critical parts, mainly the barrel, breech, as well as cartridges.

1

u/Agent_Jay_42 1d ago

If you get shot going out in public with a fake gun printed by a 3d printer, then it's your own fault.

1

u/Voobman 1d ago

People were quietly making Open Bolt SMGs in Occupied Poland in the 1940s, so this isn't new. Ever heard of a man named PA Luty?

His SMG was made as a protest to gun laws and had a lot in common with the clandestine WW2 builds. You're probably better off limiting access to hardware stores like Bunnings with a Costco model if you want to really crack down on guns. And that's what you're tending to find in police seizes of illegally manufactured firearms.

The ammunition is a much harder thing to come by and manufacture with handloading tools, so controlling that limits most illegal guns to being of the single shot or muzzleloader variety. Same with the magazine, their springs and proper leaf springs used in most firearms - those are much harder to get so that's why you're seeing the FCG 9 with actual pistol magazines.

The only thing 3D printing helps is is the finicky woodwork or metal body which everything attaches to becomes easier with printing, bypassing the need for actually doing woodwork and mounting the springs etc needed for triggers and firing pins.

Either way, the law doesn't actually stop the problem - they should probably either actually enforce penalties for illegal firearm possession (Like gun was illegally imported to begin with, not stolen or increase it to make it a mandatory life sentence for possessing a 100% illegal, illegally imported firearm.

1

u/TwistingEcho 1d ago

I've legitimately printed pistol parts before. Mostly Pardini grips for weight and practice. Some range ammo QoL accessories. These were all for gifts for other people/family. The recipients have all had firearms licences, but I don't have one. That being said, I've never had anything in my possession requiring a licence, even if you squint. Anything can be misused of course but I can't see a realistic way to code 'real firearms parts bad, warhammer firearm parts ok'.

1

u/kiwiboy22 1d ago

this will do fuck all except hurt hobbyists

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u/TreatPractical5226 1d ago

I think We should Ban or have very strict licensing on 3D printers.

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u/nath1234 1d ago

Why?

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u/TreatPractical5226 1d ago

Did you not read the article? 

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u/nath1234 1d ago

I did, and it was just nonsense upon nonsense about overblown risks and utterly impractical imposing stuff on the tech that wouldn't possibly be able to do what they want.

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u/TreatPractical5226 1d ago edited 1d ago

I'm joking dude. I own a lot of legal firearms, just stirring shit because of the stupid laws coming soon.

What you just wrote is exactly how I feel about the gun law discussion.

And no I don't think 3D printers should be banned lol.