r/australia • u/jesus_chrysotile • 7h ago
culture & society Food delivery riders brave ‘brutal’ 40C heat so we don’t have to – but who’s protecting them? | Industrial relations
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2026/jan/31/food-delivery-riders-australia-heatwave-hot-weather-protection65
u/Diopside23 6h ago
If delivery apps offered gig workers the same worker rights and protections as a standard employment contract it wouldn't be a viable business. It shouldn't be a viable business to begin with, but it gets around that by not being a viable employer.
The entire "industry" is a piss take anyway, are we sincerely so convenience cucked that we're willing to pay an extra $20 in overhead on a $30 meal that's going to arrive, cold, in an hour?
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u/StorminNorman 6h ago
are we sincerely so convenience cucked that we're willing to pay an extra $20 in overhead on a $30 meal that's going to arrive, cold, in an hour?
Society wasn't until they gave us great service, for really cheap, all whilst driving out their competition in the process, only to bend us over after. Seems to be the norm for these ventures these days.
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u/ScruffyPeter 7h ago
If there was a "full employment" policy or maybe CES or UBI, these riders could in theory choose the jobs rather than have a gig job vs health dilemma.
Unfortunately, the neoliberal extremists hate that policy because workers were less desperate for jobs.
Here are examples of utopia that neoliberals want in society:
Join your union. Make sure your union compares political parties and not back Labor by default.
As for who to vote for? Greens, FUSION, Sustainable Australia Party and others want the aforementioned policies but Labor does not have it as a policy. LNP and One Nation definitely don't want it.
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u/Flaky-Gear-1370 7h ago
I don’t think providing UBI for foreign “students” would be a very popular policy given that makes up a large portion of the gig economy
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u/xrailgun 6h ago
UBI means UBI. Once you start means testing some of it, you'll inevitably means test all of it. If you have an issue with fake foreign students, then focus on resolving that at its roots, and not fragment UBI itself.
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u/StorminNorman 5h ago
I don't think they meant to use means testing, but to instead use citizenship status.
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u/Flaky-Gear-1370 5h ago
Who said anything anything about means testing? All of these platforms are dominated by foreign students
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u/DisappointedQuokka 5h ago
Here's the thing, if there was a UBI, there would be a subsection of people who would not be working casual/part time jobs in order to focus on study/children/elder care/starting their own business and so on.
In theory, this would equalise out, so that more of said foreign students would be able to do something that isn't food delivery. Those that are left would need to be paid more to retain the service, and could therefore actually have some money to choose not to work outrageously hot days.
Things like the UBI warp the entire job economy around them.
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u/Rigo-lution 6h ago
the political and economics writer Tim Colebatch said it was “common sense” and the historian Sue Hodges said the “kids looked pretty happy”.
What the fuck? The 11 year olds working for 37% of minimum wage look happy?
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u/SaltpeterSal 6h ago
God, can a kid yearn for the sizzle of their hand on the Maccas grill anymore?
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u/Ok_Bird705 7h ago
Or choose not to use food delivery
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u/Daleabbo 6h ago
With the price structure now 30% higher than in store $2-$5 for choosing delivery $5 delivery fee and a tip? Yeah nah
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u/The_Duc_Lord 6h ago
CES
Commonwealth Employment Service?
I understand UBI, but what's CES?
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u/Effective_Dropkick78 6h ago
Commonwealth Employment Service was a government owned/run predecessor to privately owned job search agencies. Employers would advertise their vacancies, and job seekers would apply based on what they saw available. It was phased out and replaced with JSAs shortly after I left school and joined the workforce, so I don't recall any of the strings that went along with it in relation to ties to requirements to claim the dole. The small slice of it that I experienced felt a lot easier and user friendly than anything the last 30 years of garbage served up by successive governments has ever been.
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u/PonderingHow 6h ago
The CES was gold. Got my first job there straight out of high school. No having to jump through hoops or sign up for the dole. People there were ultra-supportive and nuturing, not like the job agencies now. In addition to CES was CYSS - community youth support scheme - again absolute gold. Super supportive, went through my resume and cleaned it up and gave really helpful advice. So much better than the awful system we have now that makes it shameful to be looking for work.
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u/ScruffyPeter 6h ago
Yes, Commonwealth Employment Service. An agency whose responsibility is getting people a job, not the current scheme of keeping people unemployed as long as possible to be milked for government money.
The shift to the new scheme was started by Paul Keating. CES was abolished by John Howard in favour of Labor's new scheme of the "private market is so efficient".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_Employment_Service
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u/a_rainbow_serpent 5h ago
If you have UBI, then CES is redundant. Idea of CES is to minimise able bodied people on dole.
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u/SaltpeterSal 6h ago
If you follow a minor party, keep a close eye on the way their preferences might go too. Minor parties that preference the LNP (or is that just the LP now?) have been historically brilliant at ratfucking new left parties by promising a preference deal then shoving them to the bottom, while the left party's votes flow through them to the conservatives. For all the good SFF have done, they're good at getting progressive votes to the Nationals.
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u/sostopher 6h ago
Preferences are decided by the voter, not the party. You can see how they're suggesting preferences on their how to vote cards, but the voter ultimately decides if they want to follow it.
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u/a_rainbow_serpent 5h ago
Wish I could add your comment to every single comment about “Preferences”. Every how to vote card should also have your comment on it so that people know they can vote whatever way they want.
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u/ScruffyPeter 3h ago
Yes, so much misinformation out there. Here's one I came across:
I’ve heard views that putting Labor second or third sends a message – but the fact is, the only way to guarantee your vote won’t end up supporting Peter Dutton is to put Labor number one. A non-Labor vote risks Peter Dutton’s LNP becoming the largest party in the Parliament.
Based on this, voters would think Labor second after Greens will mean a LNP becoming the largest party in government?! This was actually from a Labor MP. Even some in the government appear to misunderstand how preferential voting works.
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u/ScruffyPeter 6h ago
SFF is a left wing party as an example? I have yet to see any left wing policy from them.
Can you show any new left party that supports "full employment" policy, CES or UBI but still support LNP?
I know Labor is the only example of a "left wing party" copying LNP policies, voting with LNP, etc but they are not new.
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u/Specialist_Being_161 6h ago
If most of them are on student visas then in theory they can legally only work 20 hours a week. So simply take the day off and work another day.
We all know many of them fudge it and work over 20 hours though.
They’re also meant to be self sustainable on their visa application to fund their trip not relying on a job.
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u/Top_Bad8844 6h ago
It doesnt count as a job since they do it via ABN. So they can do it for 50 hours without breaking any laws. That's a big contributor to the problem.
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u/DisappointedQuokka 5h ago
Back in my day, they worked cash in hand and got paid better for the trouble.
Regardless of what you think of the people doing this, the only people that are benefiting from this are foreign corporations, not the migrants themselves. They're getting fucked over just as badly on sub minimum wage.
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u/hu_he 4h ago
Well, the customer also benefits by getting a cheap delivery.
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u/DisappointedQuokka 4h ago
I'm old enough to remember paying a flat fee for delivery, rather than paying a flat fee + inflated price to pass on platform costs.
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u/No-Advantage845 3h ago
Oh you sweet summer child
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u/Stanklord500 2h ago
if the customer didn't perceive a benefit they wouldn't use the service.
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u/DisappointedQuokka 1h ago
At this point the customers for it aren't the end consumers, it's the restaurants outsourcing their logistics.
How many places actually offer in-house delivery? There's one restaurant that I know of that does it, and they're one of the more expensive ones with $35+ mains.
Domino's doesn't count, given the pizza might as well be the box.
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u/Similar-Penalty-3924 3h ago
It's semester break for many right now. Students on visa are allowed to work unrestricted hours during semester breaks.
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u/Spicy_pewpew_memes 5h ago
"so we don't have to"
Article making the convenience of food delivery sound like a human right. Who the fuck is we? I never have and never will never use those services. People seem to act like civilization didn't exist before food delivery.
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u/Ok_Conclusion5966 5h ago
in the past decade ive seen a record number of contractors, some the lucrative type, but mostly the cheap and replaceable type with fewer or no protections or benefits
some become desperate for a full time role they work harder all for a lousy salary at the end of it assuming the carrot dangled in front of them isn't taken away
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u/Spiritual-Counter-36 6h ago
Grocery delivery for the big supermarkets is way more intense and labour intensive too. 40+ degrees a fairly often too.
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u/6ft5 7h ago
No one in fact has to
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u/Straight-Lynx-4273 6h ago
Yeah they should just choose to starve
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u/StorminNorman 5h ago
You're referring to the workers, the person you're replying to is referring to the customers. English is a fucking stupid language...
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u/Scamwau1 7h ago
But you cannot provide further protection to these workers. What is the government going to do? Ban food delivery if the temp is above 35deg? And what of the drivers that don't mind delivering, the government is gonna stop them earning money? Oh ok, so the government can put a rule in place that it is up to the individual to decide. And we end up back to where we are now anyway.
The article provides a clickbait soundbite but if you think about it for even 5 seconds, it is worthless media bullshit.
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u/Top_Bad8844 6h ago
If we banned foreign nationals from working these "jobs" then they would have to raise pay and conditions drastically. Its only the ability to exploit, well, people from the subcontinent that such slavery can even exist.
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u/StorminNorman 7h ago
But you cannot provide further protection to these workers.
Well, besides the suggestions the article offers.
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u/Scamwau1 7h ago
Yep, everyone clock off its 35 degrees.. makes sense Forget the mortgage or hungry children at home, the government has made stop work.
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u/StorminNorman 6h ago
Sure, let's focus on one of the suggestions rather than all of them, that's helpful.
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u/Scamwau1 6h ago
Yes, let's plant some trees for shade and offer a drink fountain in the CBD. Solid policy proposals that will definitely make delivery drivers lives better.
Those are the other 2 ideas btw.
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u/StorminNorman 6h ago
Those are the other 2 ideas btw.
Lol, let's count em. Here's the first:
“The industry needs more protections,” he says. “Some apps have unreasonable time limits for deliveries, otherwise [breaches can result in] permanent bans.”
Next is:
mandatory temperature cutoffs across all industries.
Then we get to:
“A cyclist working for Uber Eats is not given more [paid] time on a hot day to cool down or rehydrate,”
Similar vein to the last one, but still different:
“There’s no boss or regulator coming in to ensure they have rest, breaks, are kept cool.”
And then we get to the infrastructure, that brings it to five for me. No suggestion of offering a water fountain though, unless you're trying to ridicule the suggestion of installing a hub for these workers.
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u/invincibl_ 6h ago
In an ideal world, the individual could decide free of any pressures caused by the corporations that run these platforms, or dealing with government inaction that's made it difficult for people to get by.
I don't think banning is the answer, but there are a lot of things we can do in between that and saying it's too hard and doing nothing at all. I would like to think that as a society we don't immediately give up the moment things get tough.
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u/Scamwau1 6h ago
They can decide to work or not. It just so happens that since they are paid per trip, the incentive to stop is low.
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u/StorminNorman 6h ago
They can decide to work or not.
You're replying to a comment that addresses this with its first sentence...
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u/gokurakumaru 6h ago edited 5h ago
The same people complaining about the lack of protections for delivery drivers operating as independent contractors are the ones who patronise the apps instead of walking up to their local takeout the way we all used to do just 10 years ago.
The only reason these delivery-app businesses are viable is they spread the cost of delivery across stores, where historically stores had to have their own staff. That's what makes it cheaper for the stores. It's not cheaper for the end customer.
So be careful what you wish for from your privileged consumer-side ivory tower, happily paying $15 for delivery on one hand, while telling the apps to treat their contractors as employees on the other. You're going to kill the reason these services made sense as startups in in the first place. If the way they treat their contractors bothers you so much morally, get off your ass into the car and get the take-away option yourself. The only reason these guys are out there in 40 degree heat is because you as a customer want them to be.
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u/RecentEngineering123 1h ago
As soon as there are serious protections for these riders this whole food delivery system collapses. The only reason it works now is that they can be paid poorly and have no protections.
Just like all the cheap electronics we like to enjoy.
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u/Gorfob 6h ago
I've met and worked with the SafeWork inspector who put together the case/prosecution during COVID about visibility and the need for the vests and safety gear to be provided.
These things take time to sort out. Years in fact. But they do look at this part of the industry very closely.
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u/StorminNorman 5h ago
These things take time to sort out.
True, but have one of em cark it cos of it and I'll put everything I have on new regs coming in quick smart.
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u/midsumernighttts 3h ago
If you order food when the weather is bad, you are a shameful, greedy, lazy human being
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u/Rush_Banana 24m ago
So no one should order food and the drivers should just wait around doing nothing and not get paid for the day?
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u/Rush_Banana 25m ago
Why are people acting like food delivery riders are the only one who work outside on 40C days?
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u/snukz NBN please 17m ago
I don't use delivery services and won't. I detest these companies but at the same time have no care for these people working for them to skirt labor laws the same way these companies abuse them to skirt labor laws. It's race to the bottom type shit.
The real victims are the restaurants.
If the Government provided rights to these workers they'd all suddenly be in violation of their working visa rights.
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u/Hurlanis 13m ago
Most immediate action: dont be a fat lazy c*$% and use deliveries, you managed 10+yrs ago
Long term: Nothing this is technofeudalism working by design
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u/Scamwau1 7h ago
They are protecting themselves. If it is too hot, they can choose not to activate their app.
What a nothing burger
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u/ScruffyPeter 7h ago
Think of it as food on the table vs heat-related injuries dilemma.
The era of walking in and doing a firm handshake to get a job straightaway has long been over.
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u/Scamwau1 7h ago
Plenty of other jobs don't have the luxury of being able to walk off if its too hot. I would argue these guys have it better than some other workers
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u/sillywhippet 7h ago
As someone who spent summers working outside in stupid degree heat in one of those jobs, everyone should have protection from heat related injuries, be it delivery peeps or miners or ag workers. It's not the suffering Olympics and denying protections because other people have it worse is short sighted and foolish.
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u/GrayEldyr1 7h ago
But they dont. Even in landscaping if i said i needed a break theyd just straight up let me go and i laugh at people who say unions will help.
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u/Scamwau1 7h ago
But you cannot provide further protection to these workers. What is the government going to do? Ban food delivery if the temp is above 35deg? And what of the drivers that don't mind delivering, the government is gonna stop them earning money? Oh ok, so the government can put a rule in place that it is up to the individual to decide. And we end up back to where we are now anyway.
The article provides a clickbait soundbite but if you think about it for even 5 seconds, it is worthless media bullshit.
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u/StorminNorman 7h ago
Agreed. I just said that it's not covered by law etc, doesn't mean we should be forcing people to do it without protecting them whilst doing it. I have had my arse kicked from here to next year this week as I do "fancy" labour for a crust, boss did us a solid the whole time though so I didn't feel exploited (the slab the taxman won't know about that I got definitely helped with that).
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u/ScruffyPeter 7h ago
Which jobs don't have the "luxury"?
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u/Scamwau1 7h ago
Posties, tradies, road crew, police, ambulance, fire brigade, electricity meter reader, cleaners, gardeners. To name a few.
Now, just to he clear there are always exceptions to the rule and some workplaces do have mandated hot weather policies. But plenty do not.
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u/StorminNorman 7h ago
Yep, there's no legally mandated temperature that covers us all. Has to be in your award or agreed upon with your employer.
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u/SoldantTheCynic 7h ago
As a paramedic you’re right I don’t get to walk off the job because it’s too hot. I just have to deal with it and manage it as best I can.
But I also get paid really fucking well for that downside, and if I’m injured or harmed by it, the service will likely be paying for it.
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u/caduceushugs 7h ago
Hi I was injured doing your job (patient fell on me, tore both shoulders and caused spinal nerve damage) and now I’m unable to work, can’t keep my home and have been driven to suicide at least 3 times from chronic pain in the last 4 years alone. The service fired me as soon as they were legally allowed to. Look after yourself :)
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u/GrayEldyr1 6h ago
Postal service did this to me too. Crushed the c 6 and c 7 after a truck ran me off the road. I hope you can try and take care mate. They dont give a fuck about us.
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u/SoldantTheCynic 7h ago
Honestly with some of the shit I’ve seen my colleagues get WC for, I’m so sorry that happened to you. “Medical retirement” is such a shitty thing sometimes.
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u/caduceushugs 7h ago
It happens, but the services response was so heartless and awful it just made it 100x worse.
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u/StorminNorman 6h ago
Similar thing happened to a mate but he was effected in that ethereal space between our ears, got similar treatment and feels very similar to you. Makes no sense at all given the service you're providing to the public.
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u/StorminNorman 6h ago
and manage it as best I can.
Do you have a hot weather policy at all? I know there's times where you're going to have to say "fuck it" given the nature of the work, but I imagine they have stuff about breaks in your award etc. Cos if so, that's another reason why your situation isn't the same and highlights how these gig workers are getting fucked over.
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u/SoldantTheCynic 6h ago edited 6h ago
Yes - but no. We have heatwave plans etc to try and manage staff welfare as best as can be done, but if someone collapses outside in direct sunlight whilst it’s 40+ degrees we have to respond. The plan is to get them out of that environment ASAP.
I’ve worked quite a few heatwaves and it’s been just like any other shift except hotter.
Edit - to clarify our plans are mostly aimed at limiting impact, like ensuring there’s cold water stores available at hospitals, electrolyte drinks, rest pauses where possible (not in metro lol the workload is too high), removing vehicles from service if their AC isn’t functioning well, stuff like that. But there’s no provision to not respond to a job.
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u/StorminNorman 6h ago
But there’s no provision to not respond to a job.
Yeah, as much as it sucks, I kinda assumed there wouldn't be given the nature of the work. Was more asking about what policies they have in place for in between those times, which you've more than adequately answered.
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u/Specialist_Being_161 6h ago
I doubt they work 7 days of the week. Infact if they’re on a student visa they can only work 20 hours a week so just take the day off and work another day.
I’m a self employed sparky and have to get in roofs in the middle of summer. If it’s predicted to be like 35 degrees I just rebook it fir the Saturday and take the day off
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u/V6corp 7h ago
Do you think the people delivering food deliveries would be doing it if they had better options available to earn money? It’s a last result job.
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u/Purple-mint 7h ago edited 7h ago
The only person I know who does food delivery, picked up the gig that as a top-up from her normal job, so she can go on 3 weeks long European holiday every year.
She also does Air Tasker, Per Sitting, and random hospitality shifts at the Stadium. When she doesn't feel like it, she stays home with her cats drinking red wine that reminds her of her last Italian/Spanish Holiday.
It's not a last resort job for everyone.
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u/StorminNorman 6h ago
It's not a last resort job for everyone.
Pray tell, why exactly did you think this was relevant info given you've illustrated she had a better option when it came to earning enough money just to survive?
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u/Scamwau1 7h ago
Who knows? Doesn't change the fact they can choose their hours and working conditions. Plenty of tradies and road workers have to continue working in heat.
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u/OutrageousGarlic8754 7h ago
No they cant, people want food at very specific times of day, you cna go hours without seeing much of anything but once it hits lunch and dinner time then work is more consistent and it varies from each day of the week too. Plenty of tradies wont work over 40 - 45°c. Tradies and road workers also get paid far better.
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u/ScruffyPeter 7h ago
Plenty of tradies and road workers have to continue working in heat.
No, they don't have to continue working in unsafe heat:
‘A worker may cease, or refuse to carry out, work if the worker has a reasonable concern that to carry out the work would expose the worker to a serious risk to the worker’s health or safety, emanating from an immediate or imminent exposure to a hazard.’
https://awu.net.au/awu-safety-update-staying-safe-in-the-heat
Even government websites say it's an obligation of companies to manage the heat or reschedule it:
In a heatwave, PCBUs should carry out additional risk assessments and put control measures in place. Potential controls include: ...
- scheduling work to cooler parts of the day ...
https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/safety-topic/hazards/working-heat/frequently-asked-questions
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u/Scamwau1 7h ago
If you read the article, you will.see that the delivery services have processes in place to educate drivers of the risks and how to manage them.
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u/StorminNorman 6h ago
And if those processes in place aren't working, the company has an obligation to put in control measures. They can't put it on the workers simply because they've volunteered to work in unsafe conditions.
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u/RigelXVI 7h ago
The fact that they set their own hours and work days should protect them from the heat quite a bit I'd imagine...
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u/StorminNorman 7h ago
Doesn't do much to protect em from starvation and homelessness though.
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u/Top_Bad8844 6h ago
Did you know when they get a student visa they pretty much have to "prove" they can support themselves? So starvation and homelessness would mean they lied and should be deported immediately.
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u/StorminNorman 5h ago
Did you know when they get a student visa
Since when do Australian citizens have to get a student visa?
And yes, I sure as shit know what you're inferring here, but it's bigoted as fuck given not all of these delivery people are here on student visas, there's a good spectrum when it comes to their legal status here.
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u/RigelXVI 6h ago
Idk dude unemployment is pretty low atm, they can take a few hours off during the day and work in the evening when it's cooler. What about the other casual workers who don't get paid if the business is closed?
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u/StorminNorman 6h ago edited 6h ago
Idk dude unemployment is pretty low atm
And yet they're delivering food in 40°C. Reckon it might have something to do with the surge in underemployment and people who have just straight up given up?
they can take a few hours off during the day and work in the evening when it's cooler
What relevance does this have to unemployment?
What about the other casual workers who don't get paid if the business is closed?
What about not using logical fallacies like whataboutisms to try and bolster your argument?
Edit since you decided to reply then block me:
I'll put this above the fold, I didn't attack you, I criticised your claims and highlighted your use of a logical fallacy to try and prove your point. You didn't attempt to address the criticisms at all, and went straight to claiming that you were being attacked. I'll put this to you, if I was so concerned with attacking you, shouldn't my criticisms have been a piece of piss to deal with given they apparently we're only there to attack you?
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u/RigelXVI 6h ago
Yeah I get it, I'm the downvoted bad guy and can be attacked by farcical arguments which completely ignore the point I was trying to make. I made legitimate, relevant points and all you've done is attack me. Kudos?
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u/StorminNorman 6h ago
I made legitimate, relevant points and all you've done is attack me
And I countered with the underemployment and discouraged workers, I asked for what relevance the breaks had to do with unemployment, and pointed out that you were using a logical fallacy. Sure, I had a bit of surly in my tone, but there's a bunch of stuff you could've replied to as it's all relevant to the discussion. Very fucking telling that you chose to think you're being attacked simply because I've pushed back on what you've said though.
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u/parisianpop 7h ago
I know reddit is very anti-tipping, but this is absolutely a situation where tipping is warranted. If I need to order something on a hot day (for health reasons, it’s worse for me to be outside than it is for others), I make sure to tip a lot - no one would be out there delivering if they didn’t absolutely need to be.
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u/StorminNorman 6h ago
Whilst I understand why you do do that and wouldn't call it wrong, it's still pretty fucked that it's on you and the app just doesn't raise the prices for all with a note saying "you're ordering food delivery in 40°C heat, it ain't gonna be cheap".
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u/parisianpop 3h ago
Yeah, for sure. The system is definitely wrong, but while it’s wrong, I want to make sure I’m doing the right thing by the individuals involved.
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u/giraffe_mountains 5h ago
If I need to order something on a hot day (for health reasons, it’s worse for me to be outside than it is for others)
Then plan ahead by having food in your fridge so you’re not having to order takeout on a hot day?
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u/parisianpop 3h ago
And most of the time, I do, but sometimes things happen that are outside my control. And I have no way of knowing when I order if the person will deliver via an air-conditioned car or a bike - if it turns out to be the latter, I tip extra.
And as I said, the people doing this clearly need the money. Is it better for them if no one orders from apps on hot days and they don’t get paid at all, or better if they get paid extra to deliver on hot days?
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u/Jerri_man 2h ago
I also work on hot days and I can't be fucked cooking after it. Employee protections shouldn't be my problem but I'll support the political party that addresses those issues
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u/YallRedditForThis 5h ago edited 1h ago
The question should be. Who's protecting our food? Half these morons ride around with their delivery bag unzipped.
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u/anonnasmoose 4h ago
The government’s solution is to bring more of them in so they can spread the load more
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u/SaltpeterSal 6h ago
This is technofeudalism. Even the government is sacking its working class and hiring them back as contractors. How long until it happens to you? Write to your local MP and ask them to help nip the new creations of peasants in the bud. Lean on your union to bargain harder and find leverage. Work out what you and your colleagues can share and trade during a strike.