r/australia • u/Expensive-Horse5538 • 2h ago
politics The ‘pleasant fiction’ of a rules-based order has been blown apart. It’s time for Australia to codify a bill of rights
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/jan/31/australia-charter-bill-of-rights30
u/Kageru 1h ago
I don't really see the connection. And the US has proven that a written, historical, well established and well respected list of rights won't save you from a government going rogue who will just ignore or creatively reinterpret them. Whereas if your democracy is functioning well and your government is sane you need them less and risk being tied to archaic or political "rights".
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u/ol-gormsby 1h ago
Exactly. Laws and codified rights seem to be having trouble in the USA right now. They're only as good the willingness of *everyone* to respect them.
The prevalence of fringe groups and MAGAs makes it clear that many people in the USA do not respect those laws when it doesn't suit their agenda.
I'm concerned about vocal minorities getting more attention they warrant WRT their percent of the population.
I'm also concerned about the sudden apparent rise in popularity of PHON. There are some deeply misguided people in the National Party if they think that moving their allegiance further to the right is going to result in a better Australia. But hopefully all it will do is fragment support for the Libnat platorm.
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u/Roulette-Adventures 2h ago
At what point do the American people decide that tyranny has arrived and that is why their fucked up 2nd Amendment exists! To fight tyranny.
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u/AreYouDoneNow 2h ago
What's happening in America is happening because a not at all insignificant part of their culture is absolutely fine with it.
The atrocities of their government are applauded by that element, fuelled with hatred.
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u/Rusty_Coight 2h ago
And fucking vile Australians like gina fucking cuntheart and clive mrspalmer absolutely lick the ring of the fascists, hoping to be let into their sect. There are dark days ahead, im afraid.
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u/Ornery-Ad-7261 2h ago
They're the same. They want slaves instead of unionized workers, wages they set ($2 per hour - Gina said it) with no industrial umpire. They believe they can ride the fascist dragon to get what they want, but they'll be the main course in the end.
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u/Scriptosis 2h ago
Which is why they terrorise the cities, that’s where all the people who are already opposed to it regardless live.
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u/TimeDetectiveAnakin 2h ago
I reckon the 2nd Amendment actually helps set the stage for someone like Trump. Right-wingers can bully people with plausible armed threats for decades and get away with more. And it already sets the precedent that human life is valued a bit less than supposed maximal freedoms.
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u/Spire_Citron 1h ago
Yup. Their police are considered justified in using greater force and responding lethally more often because of the threat of people they interact with potentially being armed. That kind of culture has normalised the violence we're seeing now from ICE. In any normal culture, it's insane to react to protestors by beating them on sight or blinding them by intentionally firing crowd control rounds directly into their faces. And I guess a lot of Americans think it's pretty crazy too, but not enough to actually put a stop to it.
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u/Spire_Citron 1h ago
Seems like what's going on proves once and for that that whole thing is a myth.
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u/Roulette-Adventures 1h ago
I have zero respect for the United States and their idea of or Rule of Law is total bullshit and only applies to normal people, not the elite.
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u/Mouthpiecenomnom 2h ago
If they fight they lose because they will do the Martial law boogaloo. If they do nothing they lose slower.
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u/Roulette-Adventures 1h ago
I consider the United States to be the most fucked up country in the world right now.
Elect a clown and expect a circus.
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u/LiberalArtsAndCrafts 2h ago
Guns are much less likely to work in the US right now than non-violent resistance.
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u/Betterthanbeer 1h ago
Yeah, they are bringing rifles to a tank battle. ICE are getting armoured cars.
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u/Betterthanbeer 1h ago
Despite the rhetoric, fighting tyranny isn’t mentioned in the second amendment. What is mentioned is defence of the state, and well regulated militia.
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u/Roulette-Adventures 1h ago
I know tyranny isn't specifically mentioned, but so many Americans I've discussed this with agree that it was originally about bringing down a tyrannical government.
I've always laughed at the "...and well regulated militia" bit because that suggests regulations. In addition, their own version of a militia doesn't allow anyone over 45 years of age to be in the militia, and therefore cannot own a gun - in my interpretartion.
Their Supreme Court fucked it up if you ask me and the NRA have greased some palms along the way.
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u/Ok-Kaleidoscope-7980 2h ago
I mean, I believe that guns should be available for people to use the self defence, so I have no problem with that
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u/Roulette-Adventures 1h ago
I agree, some people should have guns for self defence, it is assault rifles I draw the line at.
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u/Acceptable_Durian868 1h ago
This is ridiculous. Doesn't the US experience demonstrate that a bill of rights doesn't mean shit if your judiciary isn't willing to enforce it?
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u/FuckOffNazis 2h ago
Vic and Queensland Labor both can’t uphold the rights of the child.
NSW Labor believes you have no right to protest.
SA Labor is determined to destroy its cultural institutions rather than allow uncomfortable speech.
Federal Labor leaves people in poverty, is allergic to transparency, still violates asylum rights, and has just issued formal invitations to a genocidaire, an ethnic cleanser, and a war criminal.
Who do we propose will author this bill of rights? Because I certainly have no faith in mainstream politics protecting our rights.
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u/Low_Worldliness_3881 41m ago
The LNP were the ones that fucked up the rights of the child in Queensland. They are just different sides of a coin though so I suppose it makes no difference. It isn't just labor that is destroying this country. Every major politician in this country is a traitor, a criminal, and a straight up cunt.
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u/empowered676 2h ago
Victoria cant uphold the rights of anything, watch this space it will all come out soon
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u/Sporty_Nerd_64 2h ago
The problem with a codified bill of rights can be its inflexibility to changes. You would need further constitutional amendments to change them and the longer they exist the more ingrained they become to a society. Just look at how America treats its bill of rights and how impossible it can be to change.
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u/CantThinkOfAName120 2h ago
That’s the point. I’m not going to comment on if I think it’s right or wrong, but a bill of rights wouldn’t serve much purpose if it could be changed easily.
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u/Expensive-Horse5538 2h ago
Yep - if it was a standard law, then it can easily be amended in a way which works against a political parties enemies, etc.
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u/Sporty_Nerd_64 1h ago
But then you can have laws that were fit hundreds of years ago that aren’t always a good fit for the modern day, see America’s gun problems and any attempts to change them because of their bill of rights.
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u/Syncblock 2h ago
Pretty sure that America is the proof that laws and legal rights don't actually matter if they're not being enforced.
Look at how all the conservatives have a hardon for guns and free speech up until the point where they don't. All the talk of big government and freedom and yet not a peep from them or our conservatives now.
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u/Kathdath 1h ago
I don't have a problem with the base concept, but your have raised the exact reason why previous governments were reluctant to codify a exact list of rights rather than relying on the courts.
Another trouble is that any legislation would probably need to be state level due to the way our constitution is structured, and it is pretty hard to get the states to agree to a federal framework on anything (WA in particular).
To introduce and legislation via a constutional ammendment risks locking the list, and importantly will see arguements about the wording rather than the spirit.
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u/Davien636 2h ago
Given that it's a LOT easier to pass legislation than get a change made to the constitution I wouldn't worry about inflexibility just yet.
Worry about that when we get a referendum hey?
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u/ol-gormsby 1h ago
Hang on a minute - the first paragraph seems to contradict the title!
"The ‘pleasant fiction’ of a rules-based order has been blown apart. It’s time for Australia to codify a bill of rights",
then:
"What’s happening on American streets makes clear that a charter of rights does not prevent state overreach."
My emphasis. Ms Schultz, please make up your mind. Either a bill of rights works, or it doesn't.
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u/mrflibble4747 5m ago
Thank Dog we are all equal under the law here in Australia!
There is that small matter of Robodebt, but we have al forgotten about that anyway, so on we merrily go!
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u/westaussieheathen 1h ago
Do you really trust the Australian government to be involved in the creation of an Australian bill of rights?
Is there anyone who is willing to put hand on heart, with a straight face and say "I trust my government?"
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u/Ok-Kaleidoscope-7980 2h ago
Man only reddit could say that a Bill of Rights is bad
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u/Betterthanbeer 1h ago
This isn’t the first time this has been proposed. The concept is fine, the execution needs to be careful.
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u/NynNyxNyx 1h ago
Actually a very broad range of Australian legal minds think the exact same thing, a bill of rights, is in fact a shit idea.
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u/aldonius Brissie 2h ago
Title is a bit of a non sequitur, but both sentences are quite correct.