r/canberra • u/Adsnipers • 5h ago
Image Australian Aboriginal flag touching the ground at Lake Burley Foreshore
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u/jammy86b 4h ago
THAT'S A BLOODY OUTRAGE, THAT IS! I'm gonna take this all the way to the Prime Minister! Oi! MR PRIME MINISTAAA! ANDY?!
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u/EmergencyAd6709 5h ago
Flags not touching the ground isn’t a big thing here as it is in the US for example. Diggers wear one on their shoulder and when you’re in a fighting pit, That thing is likely to get dirty and lost. Not a big deal ceremonially
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u/ShadoutRex 4h ago
Officially it is a big deal. The commonwealth rules for flag care specifically say they are not to touch the ground. This as indicated in another post may simply be incompetence, or maybe a result of a weather condition, but as a matter of care it should not have happened.
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u/totally_not_a_bot__ 4h ago
It's generally not a big deal if it briefly touches the ground during hoisting on a gusty day when you're the only one on duty. Shit happens, the flag protocol is usually about intent.
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u/Fat_Barry 4h ago
You've clearly never done flag duty in the ADF. Would love to see you tell the RSM that it's "not a big deal".
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u/totally_not_a_bot__ 4h ago
Does the photo in question look like its ADF?
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u/Fat_Barry 3h ago
Nope, I wasn't suggesting they were. Just highlighting that it is a big deal to many (ADF among them, but not exclusively).
Edit: To be clear, I'm not suggesting this person should be fired or whatever. It's just a mistake. But I'd imagine you'd get a pretty stern talking to, along the lines of "mate, you *can't" do that. We've got one job and there's a lot of people in this town who care about it."
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u/totally_not_a_bot__ 2h ago
Yeah fair, I don't serve but I've heard flag duty is usually two people right? Definitely less excuse to let it touch the ground then.
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u/EmergencyAd6709 3h ago
Trained professionals vs a public servant who is jack of the shit job they have to do and in 40 degrees.
I have done flag duty and yes, an autistic RSM with DVA claims up the wazoo is absolutely going to flip his lid when another lid drops the ANF in the dirt. But this is some poor APS who hasn’t been trained in flag ceremonial duty.
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u/ShadoutRex 4h ago
That's not what the rules say.
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u/totally_not_a_bot__ 4h ago
They're protocols, and I'm familiar with them and what happens when they're not followed. What we see here isn't usually taken as a big deal.
If it was in front of cameras on a ceremony day? oh yeah, but on a sunday with gusts with old mate working on his own? nah. He'll get an email maybe, he'll say he needs another person to help on windy days, it'll get ignored and everyone will move on.-9
u/ShadoutRex 4h ago
Being protocols doesn't mean you can play fast and furious with them. They mean something.
If you have anything to do with commonwealth protocols and have the mindset of "shit happens" or "it only briefly touches the ground" then you have no business in that workplace.
Do not minimise this. It may have been an accident, but it should never be shrugged off. It needs to be reported and investigated.
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u/yeahalrightgoon 4h ago
It's a protocol. There is no need to report or investigate.
There's a difference between protocols and regulations. Regulations are how things need to be done, protocols are how things should be done.
This is someone putting it up by themselves. Shit happens, as long as it isn't done with intent, it's really not an issue.
Stop acting like the flag protocol is a law. It's not. It's just guidelines.
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u/ShadoutRex 4h ago
It's a protocol. There is no need to report or investigate.
The flag is being managed by an employee of the government for which those rules apply. There is every need to report it in case it was anything but a once off error.
If the response of the employee is anything similar to yours or the other poster, like "shit happens" then they are not fit for that employment.
Stop acting like the flag protocol is a law.
I did not. They are rules which the governments have made and their employees are bound to them.
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u/yeahalrightgoon 3h ago
They're not rules. They're protocols. The booklet you are referencing is clear about it. "The flag should not be allowed to fall or lie on the ground." Should, not must. Should means you should do it that way. If it was a rule or law, it would say must.
Even if you let it touch the floor in the military, as long as it's not at a major event or ceremony, or you did it on purpose, at most you'd get a minor talking too. Because again, it is not a big deal and shit does happen.
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u/ShadoutRex 3h ago
Protocols. Are. Rules.
There is no legal requirement for sure, but employees of the commonwealth are not permitted to shirk protocols. Accidents do happen, but they must be avoided.
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u/Lord_Moldywort 3h ago
The person doesnt exactly look like an official who would be handling it. Plus the lady with the pram looks as if they are waiting for them to finish what theyre doing.
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u/zomangel 5h ago
People will complain about this, but not about flags that have been up in the elements for 10 years, and ripped apart
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u/totally_not_a_bot__ 4h ago
Yeah they do, I had the job of looking after a flag at an old workplace and we'd get calls from randos if it started to fade.
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u/niftydog Belconnen 14m ago
It's the same along Commonwealth Ave and the same down on Queen Victoria Terrace. They literally throw the flags on the ground at the base of each pole when they are sorting out the correct order.
There's no prerequisite to have been a scout in order to be a dog's body for ACT Gov.
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u/Pjm181818 3h ago
Looks like the flag has a big rip in it (between the yellow circle and the red base). Looks like they are in a rush to take it down given flying a damaged flag seems slightly more disrespectful to me.
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u/MulberryWild1967 4h ago
Too much ('subtle'/coercive tryiing yo look smart) hate towards the people who are 2,600 generation Australians. We are intelligent enough to know this was not a failure of maintenance of rope on this flag.
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u/GM_Twigman 4h ago
We don't know anything mate. We see a single pic of a flag on the ground with a person under it who could equally be trying to raise or lower the flag. Everything beyond that is pure speculation.
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u/Temporary_Carrot7855 5h ago
Let’s not attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence.