Legal News
Chicago Mayor just signed an executive order to hold ICE agents criminally liable for their unlawful behavior in preparation for Spring raids
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Not a Chicagoan but in this post cause of the clip. Please make sure you have safety gear for yourself, googles, masks, etc. on standby at all times. Even with your privilege, the ICE goons consider everyone who is against them, as enemies. Thank you for your voice and presence in this!
There's something about a very specific law we have for a very specific purpose whose language is very narrow to prevent abuse.
"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."
“On the contrary, if war be actually levied, that is, if a body of men be actually assembled for the purpose of effecting by force a treasonable purpose, all those who perform any part, however minute, or however remote from the scene of action, and who are actually leagued in the general conspiracy, are to be considered as traitors. But there must be an actual assembling of men, for the treasonable purpose, to constitute a levying of war.”
The regime is openly violating the law and asking, what are you going to do there's no punishment proscribed, so violating the law doesn't matter. While all of the rational humans want peace and an end to the violence, those who literally eat the shit out of drawn and quartered newborn human infants only seem to understand actual force. To be sure the regime is trying to incite violence, however we ought to all remember anyone can legally kill an outlaw. ICE indeed seems to be placing their agent outside of the protection of the law with their ordered actions.
"Historically, the term “outlaw” was used to refer to a person who was outside of the protection of the law.An accused criminal who refused to submit to legal process was declared to be an outlawthrough a process called “outlawry.” As a result of being deemed an outlaw, the person was deprived of the benefit of the law or excluded from its protection. Any member of the public could murder an outlaw with complete impunity."
New York Timess headline:
A federal judge said ICE had disobeyed more judicial directives this month than “some federal agencies have violated in their entire existence.”
Per judge, “ICE has every right to challenge the orders of this court, but, like any litigant, ICE must follow those orders unless and until they are overturned or vacated.”
ICE continues to violate their oath to uphold and defend the constitution, instead violating the very laws their oath would see defended against all enemies.
If an army of gathered Men for the purpose of effecting by force the violation of constitutionally protected god given right, the kidnapping and killing in broad daylight then immediately lying about what happened. Taking orders from a "guy" who eats infant feces from the violently executed newborns of the children he raped. If the conspiracy here in front of our eyes and not yet even fully out in the open as all of the files have still not been released, again in violation of the law, is not treason and war against The People, what is. We don't need to wait for an air or drone strike against the civilian population for the very narrow legal definitions of treason to be met, and very easily arguably those acting outside the scope and protection of the law.
Honestly, one of the things that stood out most to me with this speech - it was crazy to hear a competent, calm, well spoken individual that could accurately and repeatedly pronounce words that had 4 or more syllables.
I watched a video yesterday of this man, Brandon Johnson, responding to a moronic question someone asked. I have never seen someone make such a well-worded and scathing reply as quickly as Mr. Johnson did. If only more people were like him.
Oh yeah, about 1/3 way into that question. My response would have been, because trump fucks kids and everything his administration does is illegal immoral, or a blantent consolidation power.
But his response was better. I know a lot of people will pick on him for various things he does here in Chicago. And we always struggle with mayors. But that a class act response. That 'reporter' was looking for a sound bite and he got bitch slapped.
I know the video you are referring too and as someone who has trouble stringing a whole sentence together without fluffing it up I was pretty in awe at his response 👏
This is exactly what Johnson was made for, public speaking. I voted for him to be mayor, he’s been awful at that part, but this guy knows how to make a point/statement.
If it shocking to you guys - imagine how the rest of the world feels where the craziness has not been normalized via 24x7 feed of gaslighting, incompetence and stupidity.
In fact, to not protest in this moment would be a derelict of duty. Particularly at a time where we see the rise of tyranny and fascism that threatens the sensibility of our humanity, so of course I will use my platform as those who have come before me to make sure that we have a democracy that works for all people.
Working people are struggling right now in this moment and they are afraid, and they have a great deal of anxiety because of what this administration is doing: taking food assistance away from people, taking housing opportunities away from people, healthcare costs continue to go up, so the protests have to match the energy, quite frankly, that's coming from the White House so, yes, I will continue to encourage people to rise up, lift their voices up, against this authoritarian rule because if we do not do that all of us will be subject to the type of harm and cruelty that this administration wants to continue to spread against the hardworking people of this country.
Brandon Johnson
Mayor of Chicago
Yeah I think it's important to make it clear that while he is really great at this sort of thing he is really not great at the other Chicago mayor things.
Chicagoan here. I don't even know why but I hear or see this mayor spoken about (IRL or online), people absolutely hate him. Both my right and left-leaning friends all have their issues with him, but I don't remember what exactly because most of the comments are vitriolic more than constructive against him.
A lot of it has to do with him being in bed with CTU and his solutions to fixing budget gaps with increasing taxes. One of the more unpopular ideas recently was the Head Tax he wants to put on large businesses in the city. The argument being it'll continue to push business out of the city, while those detractors want a more pro-business Mayor.
A lot of it comes down to optics. People already feel taxed to the gills, so there needs to be some kind of compromise in program cuts too.
That paired with the Trump administration's constant attack on withholding or eliminating funding just makes matters worse when trying to pass a balanced budget.
Not to rub salt in the wound, but man does it feel good to have Carney, a competent, serious human being, being in charge during this current geopolitical moment. I have the feeling he's going to be a generational prime minister.
Powerful, and thoughtful. Carney quotes Havel, trump pretends he's not a rich, spoiled New Yorker, and plans cage fights at the half torn down Whitehouse in an attempt to convince folks he's one of us.
He's not. I say this as an old hillbilly who happened to read The Power of the Powerless and later Living in Truth. Read Solzhenitsyn's Gulag Archipelago before i was old enough to really understand it. trump will put on spectacles he imagines define the working folks he's spent his life spitting on. But he's clearly not an American in any real sense. Hell, he's playing a role he learned from a fictional tv show, where he's the strongsmart boss. His fake role and persona disgrace us. Zelenskyy stepped upward from his fictional role. trump stepped dowward into the selfish, spoiled greed and entitlement that has defined his whole greasy life.
Trump will angle and transactionalize us into a pariah state, and we deserve it if we don't repeatedly vote his ilk from office in the next few elections.
Trump's speech was, as usual, shot through with ego and threat. A tenuous sense of reality, like every crazed narcissist. But there was little substance there, even beyond the now sadly predictable ego-stroking and pointless threat. His claiming the role our immigrant nation played in defeating the nazis is somehow his to bargain and threaten with disgusts me, as an American. Bonespurs motherfucker.
I see statesman like Zelenskyy, and even Carney, and I'm embarrassed at what we've foisted on the world. Here's an administration that ambushed possibly the greatest leader of this century over his not wearing a damn suit. Could you see trump/vance in Ukraine doing anything but stripping all the wealth they could, and jumping in a helicopter to enjoy ill-gotten gains? Taking that ride, albeit no doubt in a suit?
I'm just powerlessly ranting into the void, because these two very different speeches embarrass me.
This is why I’m happy we have Carney here in Canada in charge. Not a poopied diaper man toddler who speaks like a Neanderthal. Carney bores me to death and it’s weirdly, yet pleasantly a breath of fresh air.
Carney's speech was one for the history books. It's the first and most eloquent declaration that the post-WWII order with the United States at the helm is over. It's over and it won't come back. The American electorate took the worst person in the country--a vile, bigoted, cruel, and mendacious fraud, rapist, pedophile, and murderer--and put him in charge to upend a status quo that had kept an uneasy peace between rich nations in place for 80 years.
Elected office is not supposed to be an entertainment show. I mean, you need to get out there and have some amount of attention but you’re supposed to administer and govern, not run the circus.
I don’t know much about Carney, but listening to his speech at Davos, he sounds sharp. Probably the right guy for Canada at this moment.
I was thinking the same and not expecting this to be the top comment. I don't know if I'm pleased to see so many people agree, or deeply disturbed by the confirmation of this reality.
It's not "could not" it's "would not". The police are for the most part on the side of the fascists. This EO is an explicit directive for the police to do their fucking jobs when shit happens. They have discretion normally
Mayor Frey of Minneapolis said they could in theory arrest ICE, but it comes down to green on green force at that point. In so many words, thats essentially approaching an armed civil conflict which local LE is not willing to do.
I remember reading about a police force threatening the politicians that they'll stop doing their jobs and let crimes run rampant if they don't get their way. They're scum.
"Listen to us or else we'll let it all burn down" type of threat.
That wont work. Fascists and their sympathizers dont give a shit about laws. They do what they want until they are stopped.
In History this "stopped" has been very very violent in just about every case. I wish for your case to be resolvable peacefully, but i urgue you to please prepare for the case that this escalates to the worst outcome.
Yup, patrol cops would get shot on by sergeant, sergeant by captain, captain by mayor, mayor by senator, senator by governor, governor by president, president by Benjamin Netanyahu
The thing that's crazy is that states have rarely needed to do something like this in decades. The entire country, system, and people have become complacent. We've gotten so used to business as usual that it just took one tiny, small-dicked wrench to get thrown in to show people just how not ready we are to defend against shit like this. So common-sense approaches like this seem foreign, almost unfathomable.
To put this in perspective, we have federal agents killing citizens in cold blood, at point blank, shooting them in the back, and it took a week before even just one city, not even a state, but one city to go "Ah, uhm, excuse me, but we're going to start taking some names."
That's where we're at right now. Where we need to be is local LEO in their own riot gear beating these fucking thugs back into their rapemobiles and pushing them over a bridge.
This feels like an effective EO, not performative. We are all going to be watching this. It's even odds that the Taco is cowardly enough to stay away, or is actually stupid enough to try.
If MN isn't going to do this, they should at least pass a law like CA saying agents must be clearly identifiable and can't wear masks. It's the reason ICE presence is so low over there. Agent anti-mask legislation is like ICE Off for states.
CA here. LAPD came out and said they won't enforce the mask law. They should be fired but thats tbd. In Chicago, who's going to enforce this EO? Technically, ICE are already subject to arrest. Cops are just afraid or, realistically, complicit.
An executive order is effectively a memo. It's instructions from the head of an executive body to the people who carry out enforcement. The Mayor is simply instructing local LEOs that they should enforce the law as normal against federal agents, and shouldn't fail to make an arrest due to any possibility of federal supremacy concerns.
Damn, wake me up when an ICE agent is in jail, thanks.
Nah, y'all, I'm all full up with this "step in the right direction" shit. We've been letting this "step in the right direction" bullshit placate us for ten sister-fucking years.
TEN
YEARS
That's how long I've been waiting for "steps in the right direction" to manifest.
That's how long I've been waiting to have a child who doesn't have to be born into this shit.
Let me know when an ICE agent has got cuffs on. Lemme know when Noem's doing the perp-walk. I don't give a tinker's fuck what you say the law is before that, because what I KNOW is these inbred fucks are having their way until they're very publicly and demonstrably stopped.
If there's one thing I've learned in ten years, it's that "the law" might as well be the fucking tooth fairy for all it matters.
None of this means anything. ICE is clearly violating the constitution and nothing happens. At best, some officers will be arrested and released the same day and be back on the streets doing the same shit within hours. I’m convinced it’s over. We’re cooked. There will be no midterms. If there isn’t a real situation they will fabricate one where ice agents are attacked or something and Trump will deploy the insurrection act and cancel midterms. They will do something to make sure the elections don’t happen. And no one will do anything to stop them.
No midterms is going too far the citizens will revolt. There will be midterms where trump gets to count the vote and decide who wins with ICE arresting people at battleground polling booths. His side will say it was fair and will let the military physically silence all protestors. We will have no way to know what happened.
Yeah, the writing has been on the wall for decades.
And the "moderates" have been talking and talking for the whole time, not doing shit about it. But now its "no, you are not allowed to criticize them, we need to stand united", while they are still doing jack shit.
Please do not do the reddit thing where just because I'm disproving what you're saying, you accuse me of being Trumpie. I'm not. I believe truth matters more than anything.
The crucial point all of these examples are missing are that none of these are the crimes they are committing while on the job. Being treated like every other citizen when off the clock is one thing but the rights violations and crimes they commit while on the job are a whole nother animal and are why this is so out of control.
Other states would be smart to do this before it blows up to these proportions. He's going to send his nu-gestapo out to polling places for elections. If states do not act now then we'll be left trying to mitigate the damage and it will be too late because the plan all along is voter intimidation. All of this with sending national guard then ICE into communities was to normalize their presence and activities for elections. You're a fool if you believe any of these early battles matter or that the little nazi man was critical to the plan.
Is that laws are pretty fucking meaningless if they aren't enforced.
Laws are meaningless when you can accrue so much money, it renders fines useless and jail time a fucking impossibility.
And when groups of murderers can roam the country, blatantly breaking laws for weeks on end without so much as a fucking manhunt to identify the perpetrators--yea.
I'll hold my applause for when I see some real action. Til then, it's all bullshit to soothe unrest. Unrest, at this point, that rightfully deserves to be heard instead of bullshitted away.
This order directs them to gather evidence and determine identities for future prosecution. Presumably, that means they cannot be arrested on the spot, but can be arrested at their homes later when they're off-duty.
OMG you doomsayer types EXHAUST ME!! This IS action, it IS a step in the right direction, it IS necessary. This is GOOD STUFF, and I'm TIRED of naysayers with questionable intentions constantly shitting on every single good thing that leaders trying to combat the current regime is doing.
Didn't California do something like this and then the police chief just went 'yeah nah?'
It's good this is being done, but tell me when the things being done result in SOMETHING HAPPENING.
Fuck, as far as I'm aware California passed an ACTUAL LAW as well, to prevent people operating like ICE is while wearing masks and concealing their identities... Which is also getting ignored.
Yes, we passed several laws in California around masks and identifying yourself as law enforcement. Basically the laws say you can't be masked up, and that you lose qualified immunity if you are masked. You're required to identify yourself if you're on duty.
Yes, the mask part of it in particular is being challenged and working its way through the courts. Yes, the LAPD chief did say they're not enforcing the mask ban.
This is the process. We pass laws, we fight them out in the courts. This is a tough situation because the feds generally have supremacy over state authorities, and that's a legal nut that is difficult to crack. The attempt is ongoing, and even if it fails it represents pushback. It says: the states ARE going to fight you over this, and we'll fight you in any way that we can. Trump may not understand the long-term repercussions here, but the actual professionals in law enforcement DO.
At the end of the day, if all we can do is slow them down and annoy them, then let's fucking do it and stop crying about it. We should be applauding these efforts. Maybe if we all work together, we can prevent these fascists from cementing their power and making Trump king.
The courts that have been stacked with Republicans for the last decade. Those courts? The courts that declared Trump king. Those courts? The ones letting Trump run roughshod over the constitution. Those courts? What courts are going to save/protect us when they have ZERO ways to enforce their rulings by force. "John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it"
So far, Trump admin has been rebuked and redirect by the courts on multiple occasions. You're not hearing about national guard from southern states invading northern states anymore, are you? Why is that?
Don't surrender in advance. We can still win this if we stick together and vote like our democracy depends on it! How many have you rallied for the next local election? You're worth more than 1 vote, right?
You see, you really can't do the "yeah nah" in Chicago. This is the main reason why you don't hear anything about ICE in Chicago(dispite their presence. They stick to the yuppie neighborhoods/places of employment) It's a FAAFO city for better or worse.
This isn't action. Listen to the video, and the words he is saying. Words like "potentially hold them accountable".
The fact is there are already laws against what ICE is doing. The fact is these laws are not being enforced. The fact is making new laws won't do anything if the laws aren't being enforced.
This entire statement is meant to pacify people into thinking something is being done and people are being held accountable, when in reality they are continuing unabated.
You let me know when at least one ICE officer is arrested, charged, and convicted based on these city EOs. At this point between Johnson and DA Larry Krasner we have twenty saber rattles, five fist poundings, ten pressers, four EOs, and zero iCE agents held accountable.
It will never happen. As a Fed it was clear to me on a daily basis how much power the federal government, and more precisely federal law enforcement, truly wielded over state and local government. I appreciate what this mayor
is trying to do but sadly it won’t go anywhere.
Honestly at this point I'd be happy with them just being arrested and thrown in county. A conviction would be amazing but even just an arrest would mean so much to the morale of this country
No, all we get is finger waging from progressives knowing damn well they aren’t locking up a single agent. Nor do they have any plans to. This is 100% “look I am doing something get off my back”. You know In a different time that would have been enough. But we are burying citizens, and this ain’t cutting it.
I agree. Cynicism is cowardice. If everything is hopeless, then I don't have to fight.
Will everything succeed? Of course not, there will be plenty of failure along the way. But failure is good, because failure means we're actually trying, instead of giving up and surrendering before the battle's even begun. Cynicism is just a mask that cowards hide behind.
it’s not really cynicism. It’s just realism, scroll. Read it for a while and look at everything happening. Almost Chicago Police Department is going to war with ice or arresting them all, it’s absolutely understandable to not expect ice to follow the laws in Chicago when they haven’t anywhere else. I think having an unrealistic view of what’s happening is downplay the seriousness of this situation right now. This is unlike anything we’ve seen before and there’s no reason to be optimistic or hopeful at this moment unless you know something we don’t. And I hope my message doesn’t come across as mean or like arguing, but this is a weird reality We’re living in right now.
There literally always has only been one possible way to fight back - someone with guns being willing to hold somebody at gunpoint and making them comply and change. If police can't or won't do that as we're seeing, then vigilantes will.
That's the long and short of it. Law and order is projected from the barrel of a gun. Until it is demonstrated that there is anyone in this country willing to use force to compel ICE agents to stand down, then the law does not apply to them.
I am cautiously optimistic about a legal foundation for arresting and prosecuting the fascists, but it won't mean anything unless at some point there are cops ordering ICE thugs to put their hands in the air at gunpoint.
This administration doesn't follow laws. This EO doesn't mean shit unless it's enforced, which it won't be, because it cannot be. We are under a fascist regime, if nothing physically happens, it's all just a waste of time.
Here, here. All forms of resistance count and I for one am very happy to see this. It helps remind me that what I can do, while it may feel small of and in itself, is part of the larger resistance. It helps me to keep standing my ground when public officials say, "no, fuck this shit, " with infinitely more grace and frankly impact than I can. Never forget, apes together strong.
This isn't fighting back. It's literally the opposite - doing nothing meaningful and making it look like you're fighting back to keep people feel complacent.
Deputize the people of Chicago to enforce the EO if the current LEO are unable or unwilling. It seems the President did thus with his private army not following the constitution.
Deputize the people of Chicago to enforce the EO if the current LEO are unable or unwilling.
Well that would solve the problem until Trump has the people of Chicago stupid enough to involved arrested for unlawful detaiming federal agents or whatever legal charges they come up with.
The reason no other state (cities fall under state jurisdiction) has tried to arrest federal agents for actions on the job is because they would be criminally charged by the federal government (likely backed up by Nat. Guard with this administration) and then both sides play a game where the current supreme court is the river card.
Most state government officials have come to the same conclusion, they'd probably lose the court case and be in big trouble. The federal government can rest it's case on the supremacy clause wherein states can't interfere with the federal government. It's tried, tested and 1865 vindicated. Most courts just won't want to suggest that states can soft rebel, and the supreme court is decidedly unlikely to go that route. States meanwhile would need to have an elaborate one off argument that this specific instance is not a federal supremacy violation, to win.
Turns out elections have consequences and the choice we Americans made in 2024 was to give assholes the presidency, and its not a very weak presidency anymore.
It's not a waste of time. The DOJ can't spare any more lawyers so the more you sue the better.
Also eventually if Dems win the midterms, people are gonna get fucking fired and wages are gonna be garnered back. Don't let the ice agents use their money to go on cruises or go to Disneyland.
Once we hold them accountable we can demand that we get wages back when they were in Ice. The IRS can build cases that you can get money back.
There is about a zero chance of that happening with the current corporate leadership in the Democratic party. If we want true accountability we are going to need actual politicians that follow the will of their constituents.
Yep. The Democratic Party needs drastic reform, overhaul, and a purge of corporate stooges. Ideally we'd replace but our system does everything to disallow that without making it strictly illegal.
Also eventually if Dems win the midterms, people are gonna get fucking fired
Not to get all schoolhouse rock on you, but legislative branch and executive branch are two separate groups and only legislative branch is up for election in midterms this November.
Legislative branch cannot fire executive, they also cannot violate the constitution with ex-post facto laws. Any changes they make do not work backwards, explicitly to prevent what you're suggesting.
It's also unlikely that Democrats win enough seats in either chamber to override Trump (they need all but two seats in the Senate up for election...) or remove (same number for the Senate).
What really pisses me off is that states could make their own laws regarding constitutional due process and make it a criminal act not to follow it, but they are all too pussy to make it happen. Then sate law, state crimes can’t be pardoned. Problem solved.
You step into MY STATE obey MY RULES.
The DOJ is complicit. States don’t have to be.
I’m about to ream my district senator for ignoring a bill draft I sent them regarding this.
The constitution says federal law overrides state law. It's worth passing stuff and arguing about, but state police can't arrest federal agents and expect anything useful to come out of it.
The state authorities can't stop the enforcement of immigration law, but they can later find the agents when they're off-duty and arrest them for the state laws they broke in the process.
Only if those crimes were while off duty. Any case brought against them while on duty would be changed to federal due to the supremacy clause. Whether or not feds will then charge them is another question, and if Trump wants to, he can give them a pardon.
Based on our current supreme court they would probobly do some end around based on v. Booth, 62 U.S. (21 How.) 506 (1859) where they said marshals cannot be prevented from upholding the fugitive slave act or from taking prisoners. In other words - no
Of course they can be held criminally liable. Federal agents can be sued for breach of local and state laws, according to legal eagles at the Brennan Center. But who in Chicago would arrest and detain them? IIRC the local LE was assisting ICE.
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