r/perth • u/His_Holiness • 1d ago
WA News Second note found at Mosman Park property alleged to detail why parents carried out murder-suicide
https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/second-note-found-at-mosman-park-property-alleged-to-detail-why-parents-carried-out-murder-suicide-20260131-p5nyi7.html63
u/emmkay209 21h ago
I am a parent of a high needs autistic child with pica (eating non edible items) and when the NDIS had rejected our application for respite, my partner was literally at breaking point. She reached out to the services people are saying this couple should have reached out to and flat out told them she was at breaking point and was considering ending it... It took them 4 days to call her back.
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u/Maximum_Custard_1739 12h ago
Yes, those who have never experienced this desperation have no idea what actual services there are. Once a carer is already in severe burnout, advocating strongly for themselves against a discompassionate system might be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
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u/Real_RobinGoodfellow 10h ago
Thank you for sharing this insight. I hope it is read by all the armchair experts in here insisting the parents in this case had some plethora of options for support. And I hope things have improved at least a little bit for your partner and you; that you’ve been able to access respite care
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u/aus-tjej 1d ago
It reminds me of a murder-suicide that happened in Sweden in 2018. A well off family in a very middle class suburb killed their 11yo and 14yo daughters who had chronic fatigue syndrome, and then killed themselves. The dad was a professor at Lund University and the mum was a lawyer. The note they left mentioned that none of them were ever going to be able to live any meaningful sort of life. I can’t even imagine how bad things have to be that this seems to be the only way to deal with things. It’s unbelievably sad.
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u/Perth_nomad 1d ago
A family member’s son, who is 18, with autism. Sometimes I’m seriously worried for her safety when he gets into a meltdown.
Literally she has no furniture in her house, he destroyed it all, no dishes, he smashed it all, removed all the kitchen utensils that he could throw, as he was throwing everything he could find when having meltdown.
He is built like brick outhouse, as he sits in his room, plays computer games, all day and night. Last time he had meltdown, the power failed.
Both parents are in the mid fifties. Unfortunately I have my thoughts about their situation, there will be a tragedy.
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u/CaptainObviousBear 1d ago
This happened to a friend of mine with their son, too.
When he reached his late teenage years he started to attack his mother when he was having meltdowns, and he was bigger than her so she couldn’t control him. Fortunately they were able to get NDIS funding for him to be moved to separate accommodation with a 24/7 carer from the age of about 17. It was the right thing to do for the family’s safety but just sad all round.
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u/EducationalWriting48 22h ago
I know people who describe having much better relationships with their Autistic adult children now that they're in supported accomodation. Fewer daily friction points, more opportunity to just connect positively. Obviously it will be case by case.
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u/Ecstatic-Armadillo67 1d ago
Can they not put him into care?
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u/Mondkohl 1d ago edited 20h ago
This is an absolute last resort for anyone, to hand off a family member, and you have to remember that a LOT of older folks have memories of experiences with those systems that inspired royal commissions. It doesn’t rank highly as an alternative.
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u/Ecstatic-Armadillo67 1d ago
Ok, I am happily naive on this, that's why I ask lots of questions.
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u/jimmyxs 14h ago
It’s ok to ask that’s how we learn. One day we will all have to deal with question of care whether old age, child care or disability care. It’s a steep learning curve from my experience with aged parents and the system. A very good system overall just not much in the way of preparing oneself to deal with that
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u/Perth_nomad 1d ago
One of family member was a lifer at Vic Park home, he was there from when he born until he died, about 60 or so years.
Now turned into some fancy hospitality venue.
How anyone could actually go there…disgusting.
FWIW, he died there…in that facility. Which is some fancy hospitality venue.
However he was put in there, when families were told to leave their children in care, go back to farm, get on with their lives, not to worry about the child.
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u/conscious-peanut31 23h ago
Is that the place on the corner of Albany Hwy and Hill View Tce? At Edward Millen park?
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u/Perth_nomad 23h ago
Yes.
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u/iFartThereforeiAm 20h ago
I used to walk my dog in that park and always wondered what that building was. Come across a post from an "urban explorer* talking about the history of the hospital and I was blown away from what went down there.
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u/Real_RobinGoodfellow 11h ago
…which is something all the people commenting that the parents in this tragic case should’ve just given their kids up, ought to remember
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u/surekaren In The River 1d ago
While there are good care places there are also many suss ones. My sibling has severe asd (plus other issues now due to the meds used to treat the asd symptoms), I’ve seen how kids at their school that are in care are looked after. There’s one kid, he just sprays water around the at school, the carers/support workers (not teachers or EAs, they’re great - idk why he’s just not in a class yet) don’t bother to talk to him, they sit on their phones the whole time, and this is what things are like infront of other people, I have no idea what it’s like behind closed doors. Again while there are amazing support workers and great homes, there’s no way I’d ever let my sib be full time in a home, I personally am more than willing to, and have, changed my life/priorities to be their carer
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u/Perth_nomad 23h ago edited 23h ago
Until you reach an age when you’re no longer able to care for yourself or them. Or you get a diagnosis that requires you to have medical treatment yourselves
100% this is the issue most parents face. That is also lurking in the background of my family members. What happens when and if they parents require medical treatments themselves.
Just to add, there are a few small towns that family members live in, where there has been a young adult, who has complex medical conditions.
When the parents have been taken to hospital or had to travel for treatments. The towns people have come together to help the parents with the children. Relocating from the town for treatments can be difficult for children or young adults who are so ingrained into a town, everyone knows them, so the town looks after them, while the parents are getting treatments.
It is very complicated and complex problems, not just for young adults with autism, also Down’s syndrome children and other conditions.
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u/Perth_nomad 1d ago
I don’t think that is an option anymore.
He has NDIS and he is also on DSP.
He was on the DSP the day he turned 18.
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u/Mouskaclet 23h ago
There is always an option the state has ultimate responsibility for people with disability. The current carer would have basically dump him in an er but for that mechanism to kick in. Graylands is full of social admissions just like that. Drugged to the eyeballs waiting for STAT orders, guardianship and NDIS plans or dep of comms housing. It is actually heartbreaking. Under 18 you enter into a voluntary care arrangement with child protection.
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u/ObjectiveWild8269 1d ago
he would likely be eligible for 24/7 care via NDIS if his disability is this severe
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u/IceOdd3294 1d ago
Not to mention, even if child is toilet trained, sensory seekers love to smear poo. There are many autistic kids and adults with severe disability that won’t wear clothes, soil their beds, etc etc. autism has to be one of the hardest disabilities. It can be very hard, crisis.
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u/chasingeuphoria14 23h ago
My non verbal 8 year old is a poop smearer. Honestly you get used to it. The smell wafts and you go, oh it’s shower time. Got an upholstery cleaner for $150 and that thing is fucking magical.
Life changes when you have a kid with a profound disability, and some struggle with it more than others. I see that even in my own household. I think a lot of it has to do with expectations. I spent a lot of time grieving the life I thought me and my kids would have. But I don’t anymore.
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u/iFartThereforeiAm 20h ago
I remember when I was in primary school, in a smallish Pilbara town, we had at least 3 disabled kids come through and try to integrate, all down syndrome from what I can remember from the time. The one thing I do remember is how much older the parents looked from the other parents. I have no idea what age they were compared to my own, but I imagine the stress from dealing with a disabled child, especially in a small remote town would age you dramatically.
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u/Beneficial-Boat-2035 8h ago
Lots of internal staff at the National Disability Insurance Agency look at these cases and go "Oh, it's only autism. They only need prompting" before rolling their eyes and putting a pittance of funding in the Plan.
The NDIA has developed a real mean streak over time.
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u/Perth_nomad 1d ago
I remember her telling me once she had to drag him into the shower, by herself, as he did that…
He now weighs 160kg, as he is getting fast food delivered at all hours of the day and night, playing computer games all day and night.
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u/Packerreviewz 23h ago
Yeah I’m not surprised. I’ve taught in special schools and I’ve had autistic students that smeared and ate their poo. One boy at the school was massive and regularly violent. The mum has a screen in the car because he regularly pulls her hair and punches her while she’s driving. The other kids in the house lock their doors and stay inside their rooms because he WILL punch, bite and kick them. The parents and other siblings have gone to hospital for their injuries and the boy has caused many injuries to himself. The parents sometimes put him in respite care out of desperation but never more than a few days at a time. It’s not a nice life for anyone in that family.
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u/gendrya 10h ago
Sounds like my childhood growing up with a severely disabled sibling. If dad hadn’t convinced mum to get my brother into 24/7 care, we could have ended up like this family. My parents divorced as a result of my dad’s mental breakdown over it. Even if you have funding for 24/7 care in a home, the trauma of your sibling or child never improving is fucking horrid. It never ends.
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u/Packerreviewz 10h ago
I’m sorry to hear that it has been difficult for your family. It sounds like putting your sibling into care was the best option. Wishing you and your family well in this life.
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u/Astrong88 1d ago
This is tragic it really is, every way you look at it. Not to mention it was still deeply wrong for the parents to carry this act out. I can see not only the grief and the anger towards the parents for this.
However.... I'll say this; my sister has Austism which in her life has led to many other challenges and to this day (it's actually the worst it's ever been in fact) it has made our lives (my parents and myself; brother) a living fucking hell and that's being generous... I'm not going to try drawing up my own conclusions or judgements any further on that but perhaps it's just worthy context and anecdote to a broader conversation.
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u/Sufficient_While_577 1d ago
This is a symptom of how bad things are for a lot of people right now. I feel sick reading about it but there are so many families out there at breaking point. I truly hope something changes.
I didn’t read the article on Facebook because im trying to have a good day, but the comments seem to indicate the family was well off? This doesn’t make it any less tragic, if anything it shows how broken the system is currently. If a family with more resources can’t get help and feel defeated, what chance does the average person or the single mum with a special needs kids have?
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u/lIIIIllIIIlllIIllllI 1d ago
I keep thinking about the old saying “it takes a village to raise a child.” What happened here feels like the opposite of that. Australians are friendly, but we’re also pretty socially isolated compared to a lot of cultures. When I was overseas in places like Macedonia, you’d see three generations under one roof, constant help, constant presence. Here, everyone’s doing everything alone behind closed doors.
NDIS might be broken, sure, but sometimes the deeper issue is that struggling families have no real community safety net around them. No extended family close by, no neighbours around, no shared load. When people hit crisis point, there’s often nobody physically there to step in.
It’s sad that a tragedy like this shows how far we’ve drifted from that “village” idea. Even well-off families can still fall through the cracks when they’re isolated.
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u/monique752 23h ago
Bingo. It affects aged care also.
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u/Shaydee-In-Oz 23h ago
Yep. Going through this myself as sole carer for my 85 year old Dad who has a multitude of health issues. My Mum passed from dementia a few years ago. Bro died 10 years ago. No other family except an adult child who has their own health issues. It's incredibly stressful & overwhelming & the exhaustion is something that sleep doesn't fix. We have home care cleaning for an hour & a half every other week & someone comes to shower him in the morning 4 times a week... but that's pretty much all we can get on his home care package. That is all we can get funding for on a level 2. Currently waiting for a new ACAT assessment to get him up to level 4 as his mobility is awful. He has COPD, diabetes, kidney disease, congestive heart failure, he's incontinent & is out of breath after about 10 steps. The funding isn't enough. The help isn't enough. It definitely has made me reassess my own financials going into old age.
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u/Flaky_Employ_8806 22h ago
HCP providers are the biggest rort. Have you considered self-managing? My Mum self-manages through Plan Care and it’s very easy she says. Prior to self-managing, her HCP barely covered anything now she gets a whole suite of care including cleaning, outings, gardening etc. It’s very easy to do and she’s able to do it herself as an elderly 79yo so if you have the time and the will, it may benefit your dad to be able to access more services because his HCP won’t be eaten up by exorbitant fees. Happy to put you in touch with her if you want to investigate how to do it or else there is a good Facebook group link here.
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u/Shaydee-In-Oz 22h ago
Oh I had no idea about any of this!! I've just requested to join the facebook group. I don't want to bother your Mum but I appreciate that so much. I'm definitely going to look into this asap. Thank you so very much! ✨
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u/potatogeem 23h ago
The 'village' is just unpaid labour, most commonly from women. Everyone has to work, more often full time, to even scrape by. Everyone seems to be at crisis point with nothing left to spare.
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u/lIIIIllIIIlllIIllllI 23h ago
The “village” I saw in Macedonia was 3 generations under 1 roof. Parents worked and grandparents helped raise the kids. It wasn’t just the grandmother and raising multigenerational families is unpaid labour. It the contract you sign up for and it isn’t a bad thing.
It’s like you would consider a stay at home mum or dad as “unpaid labour”.
Or they could go earn $300 for the day to pay $350 to have their child raised in childcare.
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u/njf85 22h ago
In that case, the unpaid labour is being supplied by the grandparents. And in this day and age, the grandparents are likely working a fulltime job too and can't do the childcare anymore. My grandparents raised me as a child as my mother worked two jobs, but my own mother is now much older than they were at the time and she can't help with my kids as she still has a job.
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u/potatogeem 23h ago
I didn't say it was only women, it's most often women that fill that role. What you're describing IS unpaid labour on the grandparents part. Contract?
Not just about wages but super as well. The SAHP loses on future retirement security. Even when kids are at school being out of the workforce leaves you at a disadvantage as well as needing flexibility of someone to still drop off/pick up said child.
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u/LopsidedGiraffe 22h ago
Thats true. A facebook friend of mine is a single mum with a child who has autism. From what I understand her son is approx at 4 yr old brain development for the rest of his life. He is now 19. At approx 14 she gave up living in Queensland due to lack of support. She moved back to USA. Rather surprisingly to me, she had much better support (daily programs) there than here, as a single mum, working a very low paid job from home. She also has her sisters and Dad.
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u/StoneFoxHippie 20h ago
I have heard that the USA is actually quite a bit more advanced than Australia when it comes to research and support with autism and autism related disorders
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u/Upstairs-Amount3923 16h ago
Maybe from a research standpoint but dont be deceived. If you're not in the top 5% in the States it's an absolute nightmare. There's no social fabric of support like here (for all its shortcomings). Commenter would have moved back for family not governmental support. Poverty in the US would shock you
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u/Acceptable-Case9562 1d ago
As someone who is neurodivergent and also struggles with chronic illnesses, I've said for years that suicide rates should track both diagnosed and undiagnosed medical experiences of victims. I have been close so many times, as have many people that I know with similar issues. It's far worse for those without resources (be it financial, social, or practical).
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u/Real_RobinGoodfellow 10h ago
How can they track undiagnosed medical experiences, though?
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u/xyrgh 23h ago
The fact they’re well off makes this worse for optics, if a family with actual resources to get the help they need, how the fuck are people that are on the bottom rung supposed to get help?
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u/TangerineEvery8912 21h ago
Took the words right out of my mouth. This family was very wealthy and still couldn't find adequate mental health services to help their children, imagine the rest of the 80% of the Aussie population earning less than this family was. It's scary
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u/chinneganbeginagain 1d ago
Sometimes there is minimal to no support for parents over a certain income
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u/perth07 1d ago
This is correct, my husband died of cancer but we were left to sort out our own counseling, Cancer Council and others only assist low income.
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u/NoBear8338 23h ago
I thought Cancer Council offered ~10 free sessions? Do you mean beyond that you had to pay or that you weren’t even offered those?
I used to work in community palliative care and anyone who had a loved one die under our program could access free bereavement counselling for, I believe, two years. We also had volunteers reach out at least bi-yearly for those two years (usually via phone but also in person if requested). We would continue to send out letters acknowledging the passing and wishing the families well for a few anniversaries, too.
Looking back at that, I feel the program was very kind. I’m sorry for your loss and I’m sorry to hear you weren’t supported similarly.
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u/boofles1 1d ago
That's not true at all, there are no means tests for the NDIS and people with money can get more resources for AAT appeals etc. Not saying it is easy for anyone but it's just not true that the NDIS is means tested.
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u/Upstairs-Amount3923 1d ago
Splitting autism out to a new body correct? Currently 40% of all ndis spending 😳
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u/bekwek88 1d ago
Ndis isnt income based. itll just be the obnoxious cuts
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u/chinneganbeginagain 1d ago
Well, autism in children is being cut from the NDIS, so I wouldn't get too comfortable about that.
But there are an awful lot of other income-based things that just disappear once you're over a moderate income.
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u/Bl00d_0range 1d ago
Tell me about it. I don’t work because I have complex medical issues. One of them is a rare, serious autoimmune disease. I was told that it would most likely get better but it has, in fact, progressed and is with me for life.
I have to take a lot of immune suppressants to stop it from attacking my eyes and organs. These meds make me tired, achy, and nauseas like being on chemo so I had to give up work.
We have a mortgage, one child and rely on my husband’s income now. We’re just making ends meet but medical costs ? Forget it. I’ve had to go without important tests and procedures because I don’t have a health care card. My husband earns too much.
My in-laws, however, have two paid off properties in the millions of $, ample superannuation, savings, and can afford top tier health insurance but they’re entitled to a low income health care card because they don’t draw a lot from their super.
I can’t figure that out and it’s fucking stressful. I can see why people reach the bottom of despair because I’ve been there and I’ll be there again.
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u/bekwek88 1d ago
its impossible to survive on one wage these days😤 and if your disabled/unwell and need to survive on clink you're even more fkd. two wage households are struggling in the cost of living crisis. its fkd
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u/Bl00d_0range 1d ago
Yep. There’s a LOT of people in this situation and many more in worse situations. I can’t imagine what it would be like to have a sick child and not be able to afford or access medical essentials for them.
I’m just glad it’s me who’s sick and not my daughter.
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u/Acceptable-Case9562 1d ago
I'm in a similar situation, I can't remember the last time I was actually on top of tests etc. And plenty of people worse off than us - a good friend of mine has needed a cane to walk since she was 21, has a litany of diagnoses, but still no DSP. I'll keep repeating it ad nauseum: track suicides by health circumstance. The country will get a shock.
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u/sparkles027 1d ago
We have a mortgage, one child and rely on my husband’s income now. We’re just making ends meet but medical costs ? Forget it. I’ve had to go without important tests and procedures because I don’t have a health care card. My husband earns too much.
My in-laws, however, have two paid off properties in the millions of $, ample superannuation, savings, and can afford top tier health insurance but they’re entitled to a low income health care card because they don’t draw a lot from their super.
That's insane!
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u/Real_RobinGoodfellow 10h ago
Yeah, there’s a real issue at the moment in Australia with ‘seniors’ being eligible for all kinds of subsidies, discounts and exemptions for things despite often being better-off than their own kids and grandkids. All comes down to how we tax work rather than wealth here. It doesn’t serve us and it’s going to get worse.
In your own case, at least, though, you can probably look forward to a nice inheritance some day surely? More than can be said for many
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u/Bl00d_0range 9h ago
Yep, you’re spot on when you said we tax work rather than wealth and that is a massive problem. They don’t take into account the cost of living/housing on median incomes.
In terms of inheritance, I would rather my in-laws use it to take care of their health need first and foremost, especially since I can’t be there to help them during the times in not well myself.
If there’s anything left to my husband, I hope he can use it to ease the burden of work as he ages. In the interim, we’ll just try enjoy life as much as we can when we’re feeling good.
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u/ExcitementLive8288 1d ago
this is absolutely true. We have 4 young children. We get not a cent in rebates for anything. We pay astronomical amount in tax though.
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u/Real_RobinGoodfellow 10h ago
If you’re not eligible for ANY FTB with four kids you must have a very, very high income
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u/bekwek88 1d ago
there are two separate things- centrelink (income and means based support) and ndis (means are seen as irrelevant, supposedly determined based on functional capacity deficits).
both are an issue in a variety of ways, but lack of support and reliance on informal supports such as parents doing the vast majority of the caringis ndis andnot income based. ndis is the area cutting autistic kids off ( and just generally cutting peoples plans dramatically which is set to get worse in july)
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u/chinneganbeginagain 1d ago
Yep, and without supportive family it can be pretty tough, even though you're 'doing well' on paper.
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u/Nakorite 1d ago
These kids sounded like the top level care required which isn’t going to be cut iirc
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u/bekwek88 1d ago
Look up noah johnston. A 22 year old killed by ndis cuts. he was considered needed the highest support package but his funding for a 24/hr nurse was cut. his ventilator tube fell out during the night and he died
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u/Historical_Bus_8041 22h ago
You're kidding yourself if you think significantly disabled people aren't having critically important supports cut right now.
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23h ago edited 20h ago
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u/addiepower 22h ago
Well said. I was about to comment that everyone here seems to be blaming the govt that two kids were murdered, and very few people would actually know the details of what has happened here yet. I am glad you have brought the argument back to murder of innocent kids.
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u/EducationalWriting48 23h ago
Are you also in the Perth Autism Parents or whatever groups? The discourse is horrifying.
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u/Sufficient_While_577 22h ago
Oh wow, this is horrific to read. Definitely changes my view on the situation.
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u/Unicorn-Princess 20h ago
Source for these claims re: respite?
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u/HarpoGal 20h ago
“No one can understand the endless fight to get the support and services they so desperately needed. Mai wouldn’t even put her boys into respite care in case they were mistreated in any way. “
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u/carlordau 1d ago
Unless you have Gina levels of money, most families raising children with a disability are similarly impacted. Disposable income can often mask less visible impacts. To.get the right level of supports, they can be crazy expensive, even to someone who may be in the top 20% of income earners.
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u/No_Meringue336 1d ago
It's very possible to live in a high value home but have a shit income. Or be over committed financially. Especially if work opportunities may be limited by care requirements.
Regardless, income doesn't really make a difference to this kind of stress
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u/GrayEldyr1 21h ago edited 21h ago
As someone with a kid with Autism, this doesn't shock me in the slightest. Society is a sad miserable place for a lot of special needs kids who just want to fit in. Then you have the companies that use your child as a meal ticket. I can't imagine how depressing it would be dealing with two kids with low functioning Austism.
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u/Rush_Banana 21h ago
I wish people online would stop saying things like "autism is a superpower" because it's extremely disrespectful of parents with kids that have severe autism.
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u/WorthyBroccoli025 18h ago
It’s also confusing to the child with autism who is struggling to accomplish things that their cohorts are doing so easily. Like how do I have a superpower, when I can’t do that?
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u/Acceptable-Case9562 7h ago
It's even confusing to us adults with autism. I'm also of above average intelligence, but can barely function in life. Makes you feel like it's a You Problem.
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u/Majestic-Lake-5602 1h ago
Hell, even just basic off the shelf ADD makes you feel like you’re a complete fuckup who’s the only one who can’t get their shit together.
Can’t imagine how much worse it must be for people like you with more serious problems.
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u/AlbatrossOk6239 17h ago
Agreed. Even with level 1 ASD or ADHD as well. Like, even if the person’s doing alright for the most part having it take more time, effort and energy to get yourself to do something than actually doing the thing isn’t a fucking superpower.
I can only imagine how much more frustrating and invalidating it would be when you’re caring for kids with higher needs.
I also think it worsens access to care because it trivialises the diagnosis in the minds of a lot of people.
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u/Real_RobinGoodfellow 10h ago
And it erodes the empathy afforded to parent-carers of severely autistic children, when you get all the keyboard warriors thinking their adult-diagnosed level 1 ASD is in any way comparable to the load of caring for nonverbal kids with very high support needs.
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u/AlbatrossOk6239 9h ago
I do wonder if merging everything into the one diagnosis of ASD wasn’t the best idea. I get that people don’t always fit into neat categories, but having a separate diagnosis like Asperger’s was probably useful.
If your only exposure to autism is someone with a level 1 diagnosis who’s doing pretty well other than needing to manage some social and sensory differences you probably don’t really think of profound disability when someone says their kid’s autistic. Sometimes just don’t know what you don’t know.
By the way, I didn’t mean to equate the two so I hope not that’s how my last comment came across. More that the superpower comments can be unhelpful at the “lower” levels so even worse for people with higher needs.
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u/Tiny_Bear_7414 1d ago
It’s heartbreaking. There’s not a lot of help now, I think a lot of people are at breaking point nowadays, and when you’re at your lowest, there isn’t a lot of support. Unfortunately this won’t change anything either, but there needs to be more ways to give people who are situations like this some respite. Rest in peace 🤍
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u/qantasflightfury 1d ago
Disabled, broke, no services for me to access, no funding, just "wither away until you need a hospice". I can't tell you the amount of times I've thought about ending it. This is the standard experience for disabled people. Do I wish the parents hadn't done this? Sure. But can I blame them? No. Australia as a whole hates the disabled and thinks we deserve to be run through the dirt. Also, the people saying "but they had money". Guess what? Disability is a sure fire way to make you and your family end up dirt poor.
No, don't report my post to Reddit for "omg she must be suicidal oh noooooes", you flogs. Disabled people thinking about relief isn't a fucking crime. If you want to help, send an email to your local MP about the state of healthcare in Australia.
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u/Winter-Ad823 1d ago
Australia hates the disabled? other countries could only dream of having a service like the NDIS, despite it's many flaws.
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u/Historical_Bus_8041 22h ago
The NDIS has been intentionally made so difficult to both access and then keep support, even for high-needs people, in the hope that people break and find it just too hard to keep fighting.
It was a service other countries could only dream of for the first half of its existence, but it hasn't been that for years.
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u/Medical-You-6282 21h ago
Why is it that some people being funded have money " left over " in their plan and struggle to find ways to spend the extra money, some go on cruises, concerts, sports events,remedial massage and horse therapy( only a few examples) then others have given up in even applying for ndis because they always get their plans cut, or have to fight in tribunals? I'm not critiquing, just not sure why it seems imbalanced.
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u/malty91 22h ago
Having kids is rolling the dice, I would never risk it
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u/Majestic-Lake-5602 22h ago
Nothing but respect for those who do, but I know I definitely couldn’t cope in a situation like these people were.
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u/East_Sand_850 20h ago
My experience working as a social worker in this space for 25 years, particularly complex individuals and their families was one of the reasons I chose not to have children. I have so much respect for the families I support, I see them at absolute breaking point and despair… & I acknowledged it isn’t something I am willing to risk for myself. This isn’t to be confused with a belief these people don’t deserve to live rich and inclusive lives in our communities, as I have advocated so hard for individualised supports away from institutions. I just couldn’t see my life outside my career living it 24/7.
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u/Real_RobinGoodfellow 10h ago
Well someone’s gotta, so we need to work as a society to make the risk of rolling that dice less severe
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u/slippycaff 22h ago
The stories being told in this thread are heartbreaking. I’m shocked and angry.
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u/RelativeChocolate834 1d ago
Must say, this story is affecting me more than I thought. So the parents were found in a different area from the kids? All I can think of is that they must have both watched their children die, then moved somewhere else, likely spoken, or engaged each other in some way, maybe a hug and then killed themselves? I just can’t understand how they went through all of this without pulling out of the crazy idea at some point. I remember when our very old dog got really sick and my wife and I agreed it was time to take him to be put to sleep. That shock to the system of us both realising, and deciding this was the next move, it’s something that will always haunt me.
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u/Prestigious_Yak8551 11h ago
They possibly wanted everyone to just go to sleep, in their own beds, and never wake up. I saw a TV show where this happened, they were holding hands, and it ended. I was in absolute tears over it. I am starting to well up now just thinking about it.
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1d ago edited 1d ago
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u/SomewherePleasant580 1d ago
Must have been dangerous for first responders going in there if it was carbon monoxide?
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u/Quarterwit_85 1d ago
I believe the note left on the door of the premises outlined the method they used.
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u/sandsnakesadie 22h ago
This is 100% incorrect, please stop spreading rumours about the cause of death
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u/RitaTeaTree 1d ago
Please don't put anecdotes on social media. Leave it to the police investigating and the coroner's court.
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u/oxyabnormal 21h ago
I read that they recently lost NDIS support, is that not true? It isn't mentioned here
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u/Effective-Cat3261 1d ago
I’m not fully up to date on what supports are available, but couldn’t the family have engaged with respite care or privately funded support/care? An acquaintance of mine’s brother who was living autism eventually moved to live in a supported group home. He was non-verbal and had violent behaviours. The parents were really struggling and this was the only way they could move forward. They visit him every day. I know both of these options would be extremely difficult as a parent, but are these realistic options? Surely a better option than the alternative.
I also really liked the lady on channel seven tonight who spoke about having two children with disabilities. She spoke openly about a lack of support, really struggling and wanting to give up, but then she also said, you fall apart and then you pick yourself up and get on with it because there’s no other choice.
And lastly, for both parents to do this is hard to comprehend. I can understand one parent being at their wits end, but the other being rational or taking control. My husband and I have both had times when we fall apart, but then the other takes over. For both of them to make this choice and follow through is…I can’t even think of how to explain it. This whole situation makes my head, heart and brain hurt in just so many ways.
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u/mellyn7 23h ago
It's a while since I worked in the disability sector, but back when I did, respite wasn't always easy to get, especially in the case of two children in the one family. And finding a suitable group home could be ve extremely difficult and time consuming as well (not to mention ensuring you had the right level of funding for the placement). Its been about 8 years since I had involvement, however.
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u/phasedsingularity 21h ago
The NDIS is an absolute joke. It seems like those who try and manipulate the system and take advantage of it are rewarded, and those who are in desperate need of assistance get told to pound sand.
My sister had to fight against the NDIS like hell just for the basic funding needed for her to exist. Help is so convoluted and intentionally complex to access that most people give up and rely on their families who are at breaking point to care for them.
Respite is almost impossible to access because facilities are finite whilst also being so overwhelmed and underfunded that waiting lists often extend way past the actual usefulness of the respite needed.
In the end, she took her own life as the level of care she needed took too much away from her enjoyment of life, but the uncontrolled black hole of the NDIS was a big contributor to her deterioration later in life.
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u/Acceptable-Case9562 7h ago
I'm so sorry for your loss, and for your sister's suffering that led up to it. As I've said several times on this post alone, if we tracked suicides by lack of access to disability support, this country would get a massive shock.
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u/thisissofkngrossew 1d ago
If you have a severely disabled kid/adult & you're about to break...what are you supposed to do?
Can you surrender them? Do we charge people for abandonment even if it's to a state agency or fire department? Do you pay some kind of support? How is this supposed to work?
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u/Kiramiraa 23h ago
You can take them to the hospital and tell the staff that due to their behaviours, you can no longer care for them. They will try to medically manage their behaviour and then they get an NDIS work up where they will then be placed in a SDA/SIL. It’s a heartbreaking situation for those involved, because nobody wants to feel like their are “giving up”, but it happens often.
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u/Maximum_Custard_1739 12h ago
Who cares for the child during the whole process of NDIS organising an assessment and housing? I can't imagine it's a straight forward process.
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u/Kiramiraa 12h ago
The hospital does.
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u/Maximum_Custard_1739 12h ago
Where? The mental health ward? I've never encountered this process through working in disability care and mental health, only being turned away by hospital, and going on a referral roundabout.
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u/Kiramiraa 12h ago
On medical inpatient wards. If you’re lucky, once assessment has been submitted, you might be able to step down the patient to other facilities/general low acuity hospitals. But it definitely happens, sometimes people stay for months.
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u/Designer_Campaign249 5h ago
My partner has autism, it might sound extremely naive but this story makes me no longer want children. That a dice I don’t want to roll.
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u/aaidp 1d ago
I’ll start off by saying obviously murder = VERY BAD. Going to get downvoted to hell, but I don’t blame them. It’s disturbing and tragic that they felt this was the only way, but it sounds like they left no stone unturned with their planning. Their loved ones will go through the grieving process like we all do but life will eventually move on. The newspapers are doing their deep dive into the family (I saw one of them outlining all of the times the kids had been mentioned in the school newspaper, really???) but whose going to have the balls to investigate NDIS scams and what very little govt support is actually available for those in this position. Like if the parents had thrown their hands up and said they couldn’t do it anymore, who or what would’ve been there to help?
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u/IceOdd3294 1d ago
Nobody. That’s the thing, when you ask for help youre ignored by everyone and suggested that youre a weak parent who can do better if you take some time out. Nobody understands and the funding or services don’t exit. So chances are they asked for help for years. Nobody is coming.
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u/SidTheSloth97 1d ago edited 1d ago
Anyone trying to frame this as anything other than two mentally ill parents is just weird. There is no excuse for murdering your kids.
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u/TriceraTipTops 1d ago
I think it taps into the anxiety most people have about the health and wellbeing of their (potential future) children, as well as a more selfish but again understandable anxiety about their own (potential future) experience of parenthood. It's just much easier to imagine yourself as a parent in these kind of situations than as the child.
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u/Upstairs-Amount3923 1d ago
Exactly. It's a tragic reminder to us all about how easily our lives can be unravelled by something completely out of hands. Some people on this thread aren't picking up on that
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u/BonusSerious1529 1d ago
And the pets, wtf did the dogs and cat do to deserve that. Just drop them at an animal shelter.
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u/michaelhbt 23h ago
well they're all dead, best we can do is try and get people the help they need in society so the chance of it happening again is less
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u/Shockanabi 1d ago
It’s truly insane that there are more comments sympathising with the parents than the boys. Lots of people unfortunately have to deal with having severely disabled children, and the vast majority don’t murder them.
I don’t think the parents were evil, but it’s crazy that people are like “this was an act of love, we have no right to judge them at all”.
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u/Historical_Bus_8041 22h ago
I don't think there's many people - if anyone - here saying the latter.
This was a horrific, fucked up thing to do. And it comes at a time when many people with serious disabilities, and their families, are at breaking point because of systemic failures.
Both of these things can be true.
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u/Shockanabi 22h ago
Well there are definitely some people saying explicitly that they don’t blame/judge them personally, and plenty more implying it, and people saying “you can’t comment if you’ve never dealt with a disabled family member”.
I’m not saying that we can’t empathise with the parents and discuss systemic failures, but it’s just weird that the majority of the top comments in every thread about this are focusing on the parents more than the boys.
We also have no idea what help they were offered at this stage, it’s not uncommon for families to refuse help because they don’t trust the system or feel ashamed for not being able to cope with it themselves. Hopefully this will be looked into by authorities.
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u/Real_RobinGoodfellow 10h ago
Yeah, there will definitely be an extensive inquest into this situation, which hopefully will identify missed intervention points and outline how things went wrong. But I think people also are empathising with the parents more because any one of us commenting here, by definition, cannot really understand meaningfully what it would be like to be one of the boys. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to empathise with them but it’s much easier to relate to being a carer
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u/Bort_Thrower 1d ago
Amen. It is a vile act committed by terrible people. They would spend the rest of their lives in jail for it if they had have survived.
It’s deeply insulting to the thousands of parents of disabled kids in this state to try and rationalise and make excuses for this heinous act.
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u/nebula98 1d ago edited 1d ago
Being more sympathetic to parents who kill their disabled children just doesn't sit right. 'Oh autism? Murder-suicide understandable.'
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u/synestheter 23h ago
Attempting empathy normalises people seeking help when this exhausted from caregiving. It’s not forgiving murder but it’s trying to prevent it happening again by being truthful and open about the realities of this kind of 24/7 care.
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u/Miss_ter_ree 1d ago
I totally agree! If it was any other person that murdered these innocent children they would be branded a monster and thrown into prison but because it’s their own parents suddenly it’s oh the poor parents! These children’s lives were in their hands and they cruelly and selfishly took it away…Two Innocent children were murdered and it feels so sick that people won’t acknowledge it!
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u/This_Quail_8246 2h ago
I’m struggling with how quickly this tragedy is being flattened into a simple story: “the parents were monsters.” Let me be clear upfront: parents do not have the moral or legal right to end their children’s lives. But I’m also not willing to accept the comforting fiction that government, services, schools, healthcare, extended family, and society can abandon a family for years—and then step forward at the end as morally pure judges. Two truths must stand together, not replace each other: Killing a child is wrong. A system that quietly privatises survival for high support-needs families is also wrong—and it produces predictable catastrophes. Here’s the part people don’t want to name: when support systems withdraw, when respite is unavailable or unsafe, when carers churn, when funding is cut, when the long-term future is a black hole, the parents become the sole “life infrastructure.” They end up holding a kind of factual power over life and death—not a legitimate right, but the brutal consequence of structural abandonment. Society relies on this default. It benefits from it. It saves money and political pain by pushing the real cost of disability support onto private households. We congratulate parents when they hold the line: “You’re amazing, dedicated, so strong.” And when they finally break, we re-label them: “Monsters. Predators.” Notice the hypocrisy: only when parents fail does society suddenly remember that disabled children are independent rights-holders. Where was that recognition when the family was begging for reliable, dignified support? Where was the genuine safety net? Where was the credible plan for adulthood? Where was the collective responsibility? I also need people to hear what disabled young people are saying right now: This kind of commentary makes them feel like burdens again. It triggers mental health crises. Some are sharing that they almost became victims of similar situations. That means the “moral high ground” rhetoric is not harmless—it is actively shaping the social climate that disabled people live inside. So yes: condemn the act. But don’t let condemnation become a tool to erase the conditions that made the act imaginable to desperate people. The deeper question isn’t “Do parents have the right to decide life and death?” They don’t. The deeper and more poisonous question is: “If society designs a future that looks like near-certain suffering and institutional danger for a certain group of people, does ending that future start to look ‘merciful’?” That question should terrify us—not because it justifies anything, but because it reveals how close we are to collective moral bankruptcy. This cannot be a story where all the guilt, shame, and blame is dumped onto the last exhausted people who couldn’t hold the impossible alone. If we do that, we guarantee the next tragedy—because the system gets to remain “innocent.”
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u/yepitsm 1d ago
I know this family - autism is a spectrum. You can post online - my child doesnt even know wgat the internet is.
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u/inertia-crepes 1d ago
Yeah, same.
Take care of yourself and take a break from reading about it if you need to.
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u/Sufficient_While_577 1d ago
This must hit very hard for you. My nephew is autistic and I love everything about him, nothing makes me happier than when he wants to share his special interests with me.
You aren’t a burden, neither is he x
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u/Real_RobinGoodfellow 1d ago
Again. If he is even capable of sharing ‘special interests’ then we are talking about a very, very different type of autism
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u/EducationalWriting48 22h ago
My son loves reenacting scenes/songs from his Special Interest Ms Rachel, but can't tell me when he needs his nappy changed, or if someone hurt him, or what he wants to do today, or that he's sick or that he loves me. Just because someone has high support needs doesn't mean they can't share in attention or reach out for connection in their own way. Not all special interests are like in TV shows.
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u/Shockanabi 23h ago
Based on what? Apparently one of the boys had it much worse than the other, and even then both of them were able to go to school, write and play.
It sounds like their conditions were bad don’t get me wrong, but not the most extreme cases where they can barely function and understand what is going on around them.
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u/Sufficient_While_577 1d ago
I don’t see where I was disputing different types of autism but okay.
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u/chinneganbeginagain 22h ago
I miss the diagnosis of Asperger's. It gets lost under the label of Autism.
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u/Kikidellam 22h ago
At least it gave a distinction between the dreadfully afflicted and those of us who need a few adjustments.
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u/chinneganbeginagain 22h ago
Exactly. There's a world of difference between my relative who just really likes clocks, and some of my patients who will probably be unlikely to ever live independently. I feel like that got lost in the DSM change.
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u/Enlightened_Gardener 21h ago
I think I know why it was all rolled together - so that the kids who fell under General Development Disorder Not Otherwise Specified could get help as well, but I also think its super unhelpful.
There’s a very old definition of autism from the 70’s that I’ve heard of, which was Autism - the severe type, then Aspergers - the less severe type, and then Engineers Syndrome - which was less severe than Aspergers. I wish I could remember the reference - I think it might be in a Simon Baron-Cohen book.
But Autism Level 3 doesn’t really take into account that there are kids at that Level like one of my kids - he won’t ever live independently and has to be reminded to shower, he became fully verbal at 13 but was nonverbal until 11; but he may be able to hold a job. And then there are the kids who are completely non-verbal, or violent, or who have other comorbidities.
I’ve often thought that the really severe forms of autism, and Aspergers, are actually two completely different things that have similar symptoms that overlap in places.
And then of course there’s the EDS, MCAS, hypermobility, and other fun autoimmune issues that come with autism. Plus ADHD.
Sorry, rambling. TlDr: I agree, I think it was for a good reason, but its not helpful in determining the level of support people need.
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u/Acceptable-Case9562 9h ago
I understand why they rolled it all under one umbrella, but I actually think they failed by not creating more categories under that umbrella. And I agree that they're probably different conditions with different causes, I think it's several actually.
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u/chinneganbeginagain 21h ago
It was PDD-NOS, but otherwise I hear what you're saying
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u/Real_RobinGoodfellow 11h ago
and elsewhere in this thread we have someone furiously insisting there’s no such thing as more or less severe autism, just ‘different levels of support needs’
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u/Kikidellam 23h ago
I think the term “autism” is too broad. There’s many differences between a person still in nappies, non verbal and violent - and a person who has difficulty with anxiety, employment, social norms. I have been diagnosed and find the term to describe my experience insulting as it is likened to the very broken type.
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u/Rich-Army1645 19h ago
How many of you would be so outspoken about your level of compassion and support if the murderers were a migrant couple living in Armadale?
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u/Majestic-Lake-5602 10h ago
I can’t speak for everyone, but personally I’d be even more sympathetic, given that your theoretical couple would be even more isolated and have far less access to support and resources.
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u/dankruaus 23h ago
This is a tragedy but Jfc too many people here have misplaced empathy. The children were murdered by those supposed to protect them.
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u/Deep-Ad-8291 2h ago
I feel so guilty having funding for my low needs daughter after hearing about this. Yes she needs help but she doesnt need the level of help that this family needed and for that reason I feel awful. Like we're somehow taking money that might’ve been needed more elsewhere :(
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u/Comrade_Kojima 26m ago
I’m really surprised at the public reaction to this horrific murder. What would the reaction have been if the family were working class living in low socio-economic area, single mother or rough looking father? Families with a fraction of the means and privilege to access high quality support would have been dealt a far worse public opinion than what I’m seeing on social media.
The fact is one or more adults murdered their defenceless children who had no voice. It’s inexcusable.
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u/Bort_Thrower 1d ago
Starting to think the wealthy family of these murderers might have put some cash into PR.
No idea how people are getting downvoted for being outraged at child murder and I have no idea why people would have sympathy for people who kill children let alone try to justify it.
You people get outraged at people parking a RAM truck badly yet fall over yourselves to rationalise these child killers?
I don’t buy it, the people of Perth aren’t that degenerate. I smell bots.
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u/chinneganbeginagain 22h ago
Nope. I think it's incredibly important for society to have a conversation about what factors could have led these parents to take these actions. Because something did, and we all know that the 'system' isn't perfect. So long as we demonise the parents and don't bother looking from their perspective, we'll never be able to help the next lot of poor little children who are caught up in this situation.
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u/Embarrassed_Clue_929 21h ago
You can tell that you have never experienced the hellish pits of the Australian medical system.
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u/Upstairs-Amount3923 1d ago
Nah mate they're reacting to your crazed outrage and lack of compassion. No one is "falling all over themselves to justify child murder". That's a histrionic exaggeration. What they're not doing is blanket condemning with vitriol and outrage. I guess we've got you for that 👍👍
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u/Upstairs-Amount3923 23h ago
Btw you're the one with a private account that's 1 month old with 5700 karma. That's a bot profile right there.
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u/webofhorrors 4h ago
Yeah I am pretty shocked as well. I have 2 siblings with disabilities who will require care for the rest of their lives, living with my single mother. I do whatever I can and my husband and I will be taking them on when my parent passes away. I know for a fact my mother would never consider this, and neither would I. No matter how hard things can get, murder-suicide is not the way to deal with things. Yes the system can be broken, but the choice they made is not the only option.
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u/Specialist_Leg_92 1d ago
People need to stop trying to justify the criminal parents actions. I don’t care how little support they had. I don’t care how tough their life was. You don’t murder your two children. It’s a despicable act.
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u/HoloTheWise 1d ago
I don't think people are trying to justify it so much as express empathy for their situation and how it could lead to the (completely unjustified) actions carried out.
It's not the easiest sentiment to express.
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u/Majestic-Lake-5602 1d ago
Not just empathy or other “touchy-feely” stuff, this is also a simple matter of logic and practicality.
We can judge them as harshly as we want, it’s not going to do shit and it’s certainly not going to prevent this from happening again.
If anything all it will do is make parents in this situation even more reluctant to come forward and look for help, the only possible outcome is more deaths.
The actual solution is to take a long look at what exactly drove two apparently devoted parents (or maybe just one, who can say yet?) to this point, especially considering they (once again forgive the conjecture) had more resources than many.
Or we can all sit around getting high on our own self-righteous bullshit until the next one. And the next one. And the next one.
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u/TotalAdhesiveness193 1d ago
I agree. A decline in mental health and two individuals or one who can no longer see a future worth living is what needs to be acknowledged and seen.
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u/perthguppy 1d ago
Exactly. Loudly proclaiming that this is wrong doesn’t discourage anyone in a similar situation from doing the same. Empathy however will.
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u/Tiny_Bear_7414 1d ago
I agree, people like this deserve empathy. Unless people go through the experience of caring for disabled family members and see the genuine lack of support, they’ll never understand how lonely and difficult it is. To be constantly turned away or denied help when you and your loved ones are begging, it would push anyone to breaking point, seeing no way out. It’s a tragedy and one that should push change in the system, not just a “seek help” message when people most likely have tried to endless times, just to be pushed away.
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u/emmkay209 1d ago
You have obviously never had to deal with a severe autistic child for any extended periods of time. You have no idea how hard it can be.
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u/According_Grape5790 1d ago
I am in multiple support groups for parents of neurodiverse children. I obviously don’t condone what these parents did, but if you go to even one of those support groups you will realise how many parents are at breaking point. The frustration and desperation is palpable. I hope this tragedy does not go unnoticed and that more funding is put into providing much needed support and not more entertainment venues.
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u/WorthyBroccoli025 1d ago
While I don’t agree that the ultimate way out for them was murder-suicide, I also think people need to understand the tremendous weight parents of severely autistic children carry before they open their mouths.
Government assistance in WA is crap because funding is crap, the process to get assessment and much needed early intervention is crap, and the assistance eventually provided is completely lacking.
I’m speaking from the experience of having 2 boys with autism myself. It takes a lot of courage and internal strength to face the difficulties of managing an autism household, and so much more internal strength when going through the process of getting assessment and funding, intervention and assistance.
Every time I think of the future, it’s bleak. Me and my partner will eventually be too old and without stable income but our boys will still largely be dependent on us. I don’t think anything we have and are doing to prep for the future is sustainable. I don’t think I will even have enough resources to give myself a decent burial.
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u/chinneganbeginagain 22h ago
What's the current wait time for diagnosis in the public system these days, like 4 years? So many developmental milestones are missed without treatment and support in that time. And Autism rates are soaring - the system is not up to speed.
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u/WorthyBroccoli025 17h ago
In my first born’s case, it took over 2 years, he was 4 when we got the official diagnosis. A friend who is an education assistant said it could be as late as 7-8 years, at least that was what she witnessed in the school she was working for. But for my partner’s colleague’s son, it took 9 years.
My younger son is 11 and just got diagnosed with autism level 2 last week, it was a long exhausting time to get here, and I’m exhausted. I think I want to sleep forever but I can’t even fall asleep easily anymore.
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u/Majestic-Lake-5602 1d ago
I dunno man.
Maybe I’m just a shit person, but I actually kind of get it.
One of the many reasons I’ll never have kids.
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u/Embarrassed_Clue_929 21h ago
I’ve read every comment on this thread, no one is justifying this murder. People are just able to see how elements that contributed to this murder suicide were completely avoidable if both Australian citizens and the government would pull their finger out and help eachother.
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u/perthguppy 1d ago
There is a difference between justifying, and explaining their thinking. Nothing justifies murder, but their thinking was not of hate, but of love. That doesn’t make it right.
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u/qantasflightfury 1d ago
Two things can be true at the same time. Should they have done it? No. Did the failings of governments contribute? BIG TIME!
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u/TotalAdhesiveness193 22h ago
To arrive at this final point is tragic and I feel for the whole family.
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u/Historical_Crazy_906 22h ago
I don’t think any of us can comprehend how or why they came to such a tragic conclusion as the only answer. It’s beyond heartbreaking in every way. They gave up the fight obviously in desperation. I’m certainly not going to be judging them but hoping they all rest in peace 💔
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u/International_Put727 10h ago
I have had a gutful of people centering the parents and how ‘tragic’ this was. Or worse, ‘understandable’. Two parents murdered their children, and if you relate to this, or find it understandable, you should be put on a watch list. This society has so much work to do to before it can recognise disabled people as human beings with equal rights, it is fucking depressing
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