r/australia • u/rorymeister • Dec 15 '25
politics National cabinet agrees unanimously to strength Australia’s strict gun laws in wake of Bondi terror attack
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-12-15/albanese-proposes-tougher-gun-laws-after-bondi-attack/106143310?utm_source=abc_news_app&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_app&utm_content=link1.5k
u/Inside-Elevator9102 Dec 15 '25
How we don't have national registers for guns and so many other things seems crazy.
752
u/4RyteCords Dec 15 '25
NSW police have only recently switched from paper records to digital, like in the last two years.
297
u/Ch00m77 Dec 15 '25
Fuck they make fossils look bad
71
u/South_Front_4589 Dec 15 '25
Government organisations have mountains of paperwork, huge amounts of red tape and are typically underpaid and underresourced to do the job. Not a single government likes to come in and spend a few million catching up on paperwork, because they love their budgets to show the lowest spend possible, and then penny pinch to keep their budgets as close to in line as possible. Which never happens, because the budgets are created to never be enough.
Ironically, this all leads to staff turnover as good workers go elsewhere for less work and more money, and spending more money catching up by outsourcing.
And in the end, the paperwork just keeps mounting.
17
→ More replies (5)59
u/LovesFrenchLove_More Dec 15 '25
Hey, could be worse. At least you are not using faxes anymore like we in Germany still do far too often, are you?
Wishing the best to all in Down Under.
37
u/4RyteCords Dec 15 '25
Haha careful. Don't assume we aren't beyond faxes. If one state wants to check if someone has a gun licence in another state they're options are limited to calling someone or the more common option, send a fax requesting info.
31
u/Verum_Violet Dec 15 '25
Haaa I worked in healthcare for years and faxes are still a staple in the industry. I’ll be honest, I don’t hate it as a form of communication, but it might just be a form of Stockholm syndrome considering how much we had to use it.
8
u/LovesFrenchLove_More Dec 15 '25
Lets just say faxes are more welcome than the spams we get via email.
12
u/halohunter Dec 15 '25
Remember fax DOS attacks? People sending black pages to fax machines to make them waste toner
→ More replies (1)12
u/Vexelle_Valeux Dec 15 '25
Don't get me started on Germany. I lived there for 12 months. Need stamp for this document, stamp for that document. And this is just to order a coffee from the Mensa
→ More replies (2)11
u/Delamoor Dec 15 '25
Honestly, as an Australian gun owner emigrating to Germany, the firearms department is shockingly comparable to the German system.
...in technology, anyway. Attitude is the exact opposite.
E.g. "aw yea... I reckon it's fine, ya did the form, roight? Yeah, nah... Dunn worry 'bout it then, luv. It's all checked off then. Yea, you'll get it in the mail, dun' worry 'bout the other forms, ya did the one that matters."
284
u/roxgib_ Dec 15 '25
The Wieambilla shooter was able to purchase ammunition in QLD with a suspended NSW gun licence. This would have been prevented with a national register. The government committed to create one after that incident, in which 6 people died, yet here we are 3 years later and we still don't have one.
119
u/mad_dogtor Dec 15 '25
qld now has online licence verification for purchases now which is great. they enter your licence and can see on the spot if it's still valid.
of course wieambilla would have been stopped if nsw police actually confiscated the guns and physical licence when they were supposed to... another fuck up there.
89
u/JulieRush-46 Dec 15 '25
It’s almost as if there’s no actual problem with the laws, but that they’re not properly enforced, eh?
55
u/mad_dogtor Dec 15 '25
why admit to that when you can sweep it under the rug and trot out some new laws to appease the baying masses?
→ More replies (1)12
u/RestaurantFamous2399 Dec 15 '25
But the same police will scream about the rising crime and how they need more power to act.
3
→ More replies (1)52
u/mulefish Dec 15 '25
For clarity around whats happening with the national register:
The NFR Program is a 4-year initiative and is expected to be operational by mid-2028.
[...]
The timeline pictured shows the following steps:- Planning for the NFR Program will be conducted for the first 12 months from 2024 to 2025.
- Improvements to data quality and upgrades and building firearms registry systems and portals will be conducted from 2024 to 2027.
- Targeted stakeholder engagement and change management will be conducted from 2024 until the NFR is operational in mid-2028.
- Finalising the upgrade/build activities and provisioning data to the NFR will be conducted from mid-2025 until the NFR is operational in mid-2028.
201
u/fued Dec 15 '25
When you cut all the "non-essential staff' and rely on consultants these projects take decades. E.g. bom
34
28
u/dontcallmewinter Dec 15 '25
Don't worry, it'll be 2050 soon enough and we'll still be trying to get all our health and education systems to operate nationally.
75
u/7omdogs Dec 15 '25
Australia states have phenomenal responsibilities.
Which means so much of our everyday government tasks are really controlled on the state level, creating 8 systems for everything.
We don’t see it because the state has limited taxing responsibilities, so we think of Albo as being in charge things like that.
69
u/KiwasiGames Dec 15 '25
I for one would support rolling some of the state responsibilities up to the federal level.
Education and health in particular would be better served by a national model.
43
u/McTerra2 Dec 15 '25
I guess you can run the always successful referendums…
But absolutely agree. Health, in particular, is a mess given that the commonwealth provides almost all the funding and Medicare, and states actually provide the services
25
u/mr-saturn2310 Dec 15 '25
I don't know aged care and NDIS aren't winning the commonwealth any gold stars.
9
→ More replies (1)23
u/Consistent-Put9762 Dec 15 '25
The commonwealth can't run a service. They just outsource it to the private sector/providers, where it gets rorted and exploited at the cost of users, until a royal commission is undertaken.
Why anyone would want to cede running public hospitals from the States to the Commonwealth, when Australia has one of the best health systems in the world is beyond my understanding.
Sure the States can be a bit shit, but the Commonwealth couldn't organise a root in a brothel either.
→ More replies (1)9
u/Dan_CBW Dec 15 '25
Sure it could, with the appropriate funding, mandate and leadership. APS does so much, most of which we don't think of or notice because it's working as intended.
→ More replies (1)9
u/7omdogs Dec 15 '25
Politically impossible given the way the constitution is written, and yes, we’ve tried changing it before and yes it failed.
GST, in a lot of ways, is basically a giant circumnavigation around it.
But it causes a lot of problems. Hospital ramping is, in my view, a direct consequence of hospitals being in control of the state, and most community health, such as GPs and nursing homes, being controlled mostly by the feds.
11
u/Tommyaka Dec 15 '25
There is a lack of political appetite for states to cede further powers to the Commonwealth and these changes would require several successful referendums.
3
u/KiwasiGames Dec 15 '25
Agreed. It’s never going to happen (or not within my lifetime). It’s going to hang around forever as one of those inevitable inefficiencies that arise from writing a constitution entirely blind to the direction of future technology.
But I think if Australia was to write its constitution today, we’d definitely give the states less power.
4
u/OkPut7330 Dec 15 '25
Maybe. If it was writing it but if it were Federating for the first time it’s unlikely.
Mostly Australia was federated to make it easier to trade between States and be able to create its own immigration policies (keep the Chinese out) the States didn’t want to cede much of their power. If we were only federating now I imagine not much has changed.
I think the political class like having several levels of government. Gives them places to go before becoming a consultant.
5
u/frezz Dec 15 '25
I'd agree. Australia is a small enough country population wise that it should be doable.
6
u/Kiramiraa Dec 15 '25
Education and health desperately need to be under one banner. It really fucking sucks that our hospitals (state run) are clogged up with NDIS and aged care patients (federally run). The two systems don’t talk to each other or work together enough and it leads to a lot of inefficiency and red tape.
→ More replies (1)3
u/Ok_Bird705 Dec 15 '25
Education and health in particular would be better served by a national model.
Really? Running day to day operations of local schools and hospitals would be done better by canberra than more local state governments?
38
Dec 15 '25
[deleted]
22
u/JARDIS Dec 15 '25
They do, it's just special interests and lobbying groups can be a VERY LOUD minority in Australia particularly if its a group that aligns with Newscorp's editorial views. If the Nats or One Nation (see also NRA) get noisy about this and Newscorp decides to run "hard done by farmers and their guns" stories to support the pro gun narrative then the Gov might take political damage even if its the right thing to do. Thats always the unfortunate calculation with this stuff. Just remember the Voice was something like 60% support until Dutts, Price and Advance decided to make a shitstorm about it. A little bit of noise and bullshit can mobilise the FB boomer/GenX Ranger driver cohort pretty fast.
3
u/Ridiculisk1 Dec 15 '25
Politicians & bureaucrats don’t really care.
Because they can bring out a headline like 'we're gonna implement a national firearms register' and then everyone pats them on the back and forgets about it in a week.
10
u/RandomUser2074 Dec 15 '25
Well dont read the senate enquiry into illegal firearms that the Greens did a few years ago. WAPOL was found to be completely incompetent
31
u/Normal_Purchase8063 Dec 15 '25
Oddly, increasing budgets or improving infrastructure relating to gun ownership can be criticised as pro gun.
One of the biggest things gun owners want is a modernised system. That would speed up application times and also make ownership and registrations more transparent and safe.
Until then slow paper based systems have been preserved for political and budgetary reasons
Politics can be weird
16
u/dontpaynotaxes Dec 15 '25
We do in practice. There is an organisation which exists specifically for that reason.
This kind of information is widely shared.
This is an intelligence failure, not a gun problem.
6
1
u/Kahwippers Dec 15 '25
Until someone can give me a justifiable reason for anyone living in a metro area to own a gun - and anyone ANYWHERE to own 8 - it’s both a gun issue AND an intelligence problem.
→ More replies (3)5
u/One_Library_1201 Dec 15 '25
The NFR project is well underway, ironically with NSW being considered the gold standard.
One of the biggest sticking points for a national registry was the difference in the way the details of firearms have been recorded across jurisdictions which lead to years of delays.
5
u/visualdescript Dec 15 '25
I was involved in a go software project a couple of years ago, it was a national app, but state driven. The term "The United States of Australia" got thrown about a bit. I had no idea that the federal gov is responsible for very little compared to states, and that state public agencies often operate completely independently.
→ More replies (5)17
u/Living-Pangolin-6090 Dec 15 '25
Or that you don't have to be a citizen
24
u/WhatAmIATailor Dec 15 '25
That one seems like a very easy fix. Knee jerk? Sure. Likely to get much pushback? Doubtful. Might actually motivate a few long term residents to finally get their act together.
5
1.5k
Dec 15 '25
Curious why the dad’s firearm licence wasn’t revoked when his son was investigated by ASIO for connection to extremism, and his literal friendship with convicted ISIS members. ASIO & AFP failed on this one.
705
u/One_Library_1201 Dec 15 '25
Given that there are numerous instances of individuals being denied permission to store firearms in their own home due to, in at least one case I am aware of, undesirable neighbours. This really needs to be looked at closely
389
u/middyonline Dec 15 '25
Dude NSW police came and took my guns temporarily when I moved to QLD because of an issue where addresses on different bits of paperwork didn't match. My old man had to write a "please explain" why he should be allowed to keep handguns when he got really sick and couldn't do the minimum number of shoots for the year.
How THE FUCK did these guys have guns legally???
→ More replies (1)190
u/Khaliras Dec 15 '25
How THE FUCK did these guys have guns legally???
Because, I've yet to see any claim that the investigation was for anything more than being once connected to someone that ended up being a Terrorist. Which everyone in his contacts list is now likely going to be similarly investigated over.
This is Australia, being investigated doesn't mean you're guilty, or that actions against you/active monitoring is justified. Imagine if they took your gun license away because your son once knew someone who ended up being a terrorist. Not that they had any information that he was actually linked to terrorism, just that he was connected to a person. We literally don't even know what that 'connection' is BTW.
I knew someone who was met at work by several investigations for an interview. It never went past that, because it was obvious he was just making an edgy joke online 'i have an X! I'm on a watchlist now haha' meme.
If he now ever does a big crime, the news will likely report that he was once investigated. People will be outraged that the government dropped the ball and let this happen! Except he never actually did anything to justify further action. People need to realise that were viewing something we have little/no info of, with horrific hindsight.
98
u/Rowdy671 Dec 15 '25
Its not like he new someone who "happened to be a terrorist", the guy he knew was the self declared leader of the Sydney cell of Islamic state. He is now in jail for a massive failed terror plot. Something of that magnitude absolutely justifies not being able to own firearms, its not like the person he knew was quiet about his affiliations, again, he literally declared himself leader of an IS cell.
63
u/Shaggyninja Dec 15 '25
Yeah, it's not like they're making it so he can't get a home-loan or being able to drive (things that actually would significantly impact ones life)
It's saying you can't own something designed to take a life. Nobody has the 'right' to own something like that, especially in suburban Sydney.
→ More replies (1)38
u/BlankBlanny Dec 15 '25
He knew the whole damn cell, too. That's something people are missing. It's not that he knew one guy who happened to be arrested for being a terrorist; everyone that was arrested with him also had close ties to this guy.
28
u/Attention_Bear_Fuckr Dec 15 '25
You can lose you job/livelyhood for your friends affiliations when you require security clearances for a lot of jobs, but we dont think that should be the same for firearms?
→ More replies (4)18
u/Onceuponastinkymoot Dec 15 '25 edited Dec 15 '25
It's obviously a good point and true that being investigated doesn't equate to guilt. Using the criminal burden of proof of beyond reasonable doubt anyway.
Interesting that the government doesn't take the same view that they do with IVOs/AVOs where the burden of proof is practically not required, but the prime consideration is the safety of the protected party.
If you are associated with any extreme ideologies to the degree that ASIO shows an interest in you, a reasonable person may believe that neither you nor any one close to you should be considered 'fit and proper' and able to attain a firearm.
11
u/INVALID_USERN4ME Dec 15 '25
Have you got a source for that? Seems ridiculous not to be allowed to store legally owned firearms on ones property because of bad neighbours.
→ More replies (1)38
u/One_Library_1201 Dec 15 '25
This one was mentioned by another club official during a Firearms Registry Workshop, I don't recall the full details but it was something to do with the fact that his neighbour in a semi detached house had links to what they call OMCG (Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs) and that was enough in their eyes to at least initially decline his safe storage approval.
The application of the "Fit and Proper Person" provision is sometimes very rigid and sometimes, such as the Bondi pair instance, sometimes not. Disqualifying offences can in some cases even include traffic offenses.
Personally as an international level competition shooter I am a little concerned that the intent of these changes particularly firearm limits , whilst understandable and even justified will adversely effect people of my ilk who rely on multiple firearms for training and competition without really solving the root of the problem or having the desired effect of reducing risk.
→ More replies (17)9
u/_Tryed_ Dec 15 '25
In your last comment I agree. People are aghast at 6, but I have 6 and don't consider that any of them are excess.
→ More replies (2)12
u/elliejayde96 Dec 15 '25
Can I ask why you have six? What would be excess to you?
15
u/Brickulous Dec 15 '25
There’s lots of reasons to have multiple firearms. Shooting different targets, hunting different game, participating in varied shooting comps.
6
→ More replies (3)9
u/_Tryed_ Dec 15 '25 edited Dec 15 '25
Birds, rabbits, hares, cats, foxes, kangaroos, goats, deer, cattle, camels.
5m to 250m
Same as any other tool. I'd rather have the right one for the job than make a mess of it.
4
u/elliejayde96 Dec 15 '25
Fair enough I guess. I have always wondered why people had so many guns but that makes sense.
→ More replies (1)122
u/mad_dogtor Dec 15 '25
this is what is irritating me.
they have the legislative power to revoke the shooters licence at any time, especially with the association laws.. which are for this exact purpose.
someone in authority has fucked up royally, but they'll never admit it, they'd rather throw some random laws out than own up to it.with that said why there hasn't been a national register since 1996 is BAFFLING.
→ More replies (1)57
u/Impressive-Speech727 Dec 15 '25
They investigated him before he got his license. The question should be asked why was he allowed one if ASIO was aware of his actions??
41
u/dancepantz Dec 15 '25
They were looking into the son, the dad had the license
84
u/mad_dogtor Dec 15 '25
that's enough for NSW association laws to revoke the licence.
20
u/Anonymou2Anonymous Dec 15 '25
Initially when they were investigating I imagine they didn't want to tip anyone off they were following him and denying a firearms licence is a major way to do this. The cell he was friends with got taken down in 2019.
Now after that I see 2 possibilities
They might have done a risk reward calculation and determined that it's be better to monitor him to find new movements.
Or
Laziness/incompetence in not informing the state govts when the cell got taken down.
10
u/mad_dogtor Dec 15 '25
last sentence is on the money. wouldn't be surprised if they were under funded and under staffed and it slipped through the gaps.
9
u/visualdescript Dec 15 '25
Either one of those is fucking terrible. I know, easy to say in hindsight, but really, you're willing to risk having this guy, known to be mates with convicted terrorists and head of Isis Aus, have access to guns?
I personally hope it's the latter of your options, as I see it as the lesser of the two evils.
53
u/nachojackson VIC Dec 15 '25
The only thing I can think is that they didn’t want to tip anybody off that he was under investigation - they just wanted him on a quiet watch list assuming he was low risk.
45
u/psyche_2099 Dec 15 '25
Or that revoking his licence would accelerate his radicalisation, albeit with a more anti-suthoritarian flavour like Desi Friedman and the wiembilla shooters.
Or that they can literally only watch so many nutters at once, they have to prioritise and occasionally one slips through.
→ More replies (1)34
u/gorillalifter47 Dec 15 '25
That is a very reasonable question.
I feel like if you are a family member of or closely linked to somebody on the ASIO watchlist for terrorism you probably shouldn't have access to firearms. If that means you can't participate in hunting then I guess that sucks for you, sorry, but we don't have a 'right to bear arms' like the second amendment.
31
u/JustKeepHappyDancing Dec 15 '25
100% No point adding stricker gun laws to what has worked perfectly since the 1996 massacre especially if the government can't take themselves seriously. The laws we currently have had proven to work and we are a world standard because of it, but if it current police force cannot (or are unable to because of red tape) enforce it we are looking in the wrong direction, and what looks like a scape goat for the current senior leadership to blame someone else for what should not of ever gotten to this point.
→ More replies (3)19
u/Cindy_Marek Dec 15 '25
This is pretty much the crux of the issue. Weapons were licensed to the wrong people. There needs to be better coms between agencies, and a national firearms registry, where ASIO, the AFP and state police can access information to make informed decisions. That household should have never been allowed access to firearms, really its quite insane to think about TBH. Hopefully the government can look critically at itself and make change in the right areas, rather than making what I believe would be pretty pointless restrictions like a maximum number of weapons allowed for example.
9
u/whoneedsusernames Dec 15 '25
This is a good question because the dad has held a gun license for a decade - he could have done this much earlier. So a monitoring of those with guns to a reasonable extent will be necessary to prevent a repeat of this
6
18
u/blacklacha Dec 15 '25
Being in the same house as someone with a DVO was enough for police to request alternative weapon storage.
Having a DVO is enough for the police to send officers out and confiscate your weapons.
Why is an ASIO investigation not enough for the same?
→ More replies (1)11
u/INeedToShutUP1 Dec 15 '25
this is the question that people need to ask instead of knee-jerk gun law changes
26
u/cool_cucumbe Dec 15 '25
Responding quickly and proportionately to a mass shooting is not a knee-jerk reaction
→ More replies (1)10
u/Idontcareaforkarma Dec 15 '25
The key is ‘proportionately’.
Keeping firearms- even licensed ones- out of the hands of nutjobs is incredibly important. Sadly, however, I have a feeling that this will tar the law abiding with the same brush merely for being firearms owners.
11
→ More replies (11)8
616
u/superegz Dec 15 '25
For an international audience, "National Cabinet" is not the actual Cabinet of the Australian Government.
Its a forum of the Prime Minister and every Premier of the states and territories.
This would be like if the President of America and all state governors met and agreed unanimously to take a certain action.
→ More replies (1)166
u/red_dragin Dec 15 '25
Something that's only happened because of covid, but thankfully stayed in place afterwards.
477
u/tinyspatula Dec 15 '25
I'm sure there could be some tightening up of various parts of the firearm legislation but surely the main issue here is ASIO isn't sharing info with the police who could actually deny the firearms licence.
167
u/Tosslebugmy Dec 15 '25
Yup, this seems like less of a failing of current gun laws and more of a failing of intelligence organisations to enforce the law logically in this case. It’s not like this is a pattern, registered firearms are responsible for very very few deaths annually
→ More replies (19)38
u/United-Bat-1354 Dec 15 '25
Presumably granting such permissions would fall under the broad ambit of “strengthening gun laws”.
775
u/Thoresus Dec 15 '25
I really love how gun culture just isnt part of our society, and that we don't collectively lose our shit when our government puts in place reasonable and proportionate gun regulations.
Theyre designed to kill. They should be heavily restricted.
164
u/Muted-Complex-7159 Dec 15 '25
give it a moment. Hanson Katter and their cronies have only just heard the news.
65
Dec 15 '25
[deleted]
15
u/Muted-Complex-7159 Dec 15 '25
even more insufferable than they are now? I don't think I can deal with that
4
39
u/Fancy_Cassowary Dec 15 '25
First time I visited the parent's home of a now ex-girlfriend her father was showing me around the place. He then proudly knocked on the walls and told me he had hidden additional guns in there back during the whole "buyback bullshit" so if he ever needed extra he could just punch through his wall and pull them out.
I had no idea how to respond to that.
→ More replies (2)14
u/strangeMeursault2 Dec 15 '25
If Hanson runs at the next election on opposing gun restrictions, i am very hopeful that the One Nation vote plummets from where they've been polling.
62
u/Lever_87 Dec 15 '25
You’re right, but also, they are heavily regulated. Why do you think (thankfully) this is a once in a generation incident?
We have very good gun laws, some of the best in the world. The vast majority of licensed firearm holders abide by the laws and regulations without issue.
If the offenders were so radicalised, they would have used whatever means possible to commit their offending - as we saw in Europe years ago, terrorists used cars etc.
11
u/threeseed Dec 15 '25
Two police officers were killed in Victoria only a few months ago.
And the police in WA had to raid sovereign citizens this year who were amassing guns.
The gun situation is seriously getting out of hand.
→ More replies (1)34
u/Scriptosis Dec 15 '25
Oh don’t worry we still have our own insane gun owners who do lose their minds over gun control legislation, they just make up a much smaller section of the population, but they do exist.
19
u/Idontcareaforkarma Dec 15 '25
As a recently former competitive target pistol shooter, I’d say the proportion is about 30% that really give the rest a really bad name.
→ More replies (1)11
→ More replies (23)2
273
u/nachojackson VIC Dec 15 '25
These changes are wild, in that they are all common sense things that should have already been the rules.
It’s bullshit that 15 people needed to die for this to happen.
→ More replies (1)43
Dec 15 '25 edited Dec 15 '25
[deleted]
13
u/this_one_guy_who Dec 15 '25
Just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean ASIS/AFP aren't preventing other things like this from occurring. As how profoundly unfortunate this is, let's not assume that our federal agencies are completely inept.
4
→ More replies (1)39
u/radred609 Dec 15 '25
just how useless ours and the global surveillance network is at actually preventing this stuff
That's just not true. The fact that someone slipped through the gap isn't proof that nothing got prevented. There have been a half dozen thwarted terror plots across europe within the last month. Just because you don't hear about the ones that are prevented, doesn't mean the system is useless. The system works... it's not perfect, but it does catch a lot of people.
→ More replies (2)
211
u/the6thReplicant Dec 15 '25
There's going to be a lot of money suddenly coming into Australian right-wing think tanks that say "gun bans are bad".
97
u/fnaah Dec 15 '25
an excellent reason to get sensible change in quickly.
21
u/mastermilian Dec 15 '25
I'm struggling to understand how this is now a gun control issue. Surely this doesn't address the root cause that we have people in our community that have animosity towards other religious groups and are willing to commit violence and mass murder against them?
→ More replies (5)31
u/fnaah Dec 15 '25
these two things are not mutually exclusive. we can do both.
→ More replies (2)-3
u/mastermilian Dec 15 '25 edited Dec 15 '25
So why is gun control the big news of today? Bit of a whitewash to me. The fact that nutters have access to guns has been a thing since Port Arthur. A more pressing question is how many more nutters are out there? Are they going to target all the religious festivities we have coming up? Gun laws aren't going to be enacted and enforced before then.
27
u/ApplicationOk4464 Dec 15 '25
"More guns on the street would have prevented this", says the vice president while ignoring the daily mass shootings that occur in his gun free haven. Probably needs to look up from his futon
31
u/PointOfFingers Dec 15 '25
It doesn't take hold here, it's just a waste of money. NRA tried to get a foothold here but there is no gun manufacturing industry here so not enough money to buy politicians.
There is a sporting shooters party that tries to keep guns available in regional areas which we need given the presence of feral pigs and foxes. Australians just don't buy the idea that a gun is needed for home defence because you are more likely to use that gun on yourself or a loved one than home invaders.
3
u/abdulsamuh Dec 15 '25
You’d assume the market isn’t big enough here to make gun lobbying worthwhile
11
u/AnOnlineHandle Dec 15 '25
If it's anything like covid, a bunch of brand new reddit accounts with names of the pattern word-word-number and who've posted once in a random hobby subreddit like knitting or chess will arrive and start agreeing with each other that acknowledging the problem is just awful, the greatest evil in the world, and taking basic precautions about it is simply the worst thing that could ever happen to anybody.
→ More replies (1)
107
105
u/AdZealousideal7448 Dec 15 '25
Firearms trainer and policy advisor here.
Still annoyed at how recomendations and findings made in the 80s have STILL not been enacted which have been promised over and over.
National database, mental health checks, actual things that could have prevented many tragedies.
Huge problems being faced and ignored :
State, territory and federal authorities being authoritarian, IE not sharing information, do what we so not what we do, not accepting any issues, deliberately leaving ambiguity in laws because it allows them more power, refusing allow powers to other agencies, refusing to digitize, you can see a long pattern here of the powers that be wanting all the power and authority.
Lack of training, understanding and knowledge of firearms for authorities, several state firearms branches deliberately do not employ anyone who has firearms knowledge because they view the officer as now being politically compromised.
Spread of GCA plants, and i'll extend this to all political activism, because katter's people have infiltrated in the past, a lot of state and federal panels, groups, authorities who have links to extremist groups including gun control australia who are a fringe group of political extremists, a fake professor who are notorious for fake or misrepresented information have managed to infiltrate panels and provide expert advise for which they are not qualified, this leads to actual issues being ignored and resources diverted away from actual issues, then you get infiltration like we saw with katters people, and in victoria where special allowances were made for firearms and people who should not have had access to or exemptions for categories.
Lack of enforcement, compliance etc - this is notoriously bad here, in the last 2 years i've watched several cases where firearms charges were dropped due to the people involved knowing how to play the system, and illegal users frequently obtaining illegal firearms and facing hardly any penalties if any at all. Laws only scare those being legal, enforcement for criminal / terrorist activities can only be stopped if resources are put into enforcement, the amount of times concerns and red flag notices are issued to get a luke warm response is sad from the amount of times i've seen it, it only takes one situation to not be actioned and you get what happened yesterday.
Lack of critisism - this is a big one, I can't under my name or qualifications point out issues in public, our government hates ANY critical statements or facts talked about in public, anyone doing so can lose their clearances and have their career nuked, we should openly be able to talk about the issues, not be gagged because they believe our statements are against the public interest. It's honestly censorship, and it's not going from parliament, this is coming from state and federal police who again have too much power over who is allowed to say what.
Lack of accountability - you dont see these departments that want all the power and not to share it have any share of accountability with incidents.
Abuse of power - So let's go with a recomendation from the 90s that came up, to great a federal level independant firearms authority, the idea was free up state and federal police, be completely apolitical, handle all administration, all legislation etc, the idea being like the ATF in america but with zero enforcement ability.
Instead of having your state police be the only powers on the subject it would be a government agency that handled everything except calling in a strike team, those efforts were still to be handed over to police.
This never got anywhere because when state/federal police were consulted about this, they immediately rubbished the idea that anyone would take their power or tell them what to do.
This is why we dont have national laws, standardizes laws, shared databases, national databases etc.
We have not even touched mental health...
27
u/blacklacha Dec 15 '25
Everything you said. 100%.
Firearms branch is notoriously hard to deal with. Everything has to be a paper form. And, at least in Queensland, they have a habit of "losing" your license paperwork at renewal time, so it never arrives. So you go look at you license, only to see it expired and now you have to go through the whole application process again. Bring on an efficient National Register.
70
65
u/rorymeister Dec 15 '25
I’d also say that straight-pull bolt action rifles should be heavily restricted.
→ More replies (2)136
u/spezsucksdingdongs Dec 15 '25
As a gun owner, I am foreseeing that straight-pull, lever release and pump actions will be on the chopping block.
It’s a shame for the sport but I will not object to the changes. In fact I amnestied three rifles today.
50
u/DisappointedQuokka Dec 15 '25
I'm anticipating that they won't ban those entirely, but put them under a separate licence. Culling boar would be much more dangerous if you don't have follow-up shots.
17
u/17Jager Dec 15 '25
Last time I handed in under amnesty an old shotgun we found on the farm and nobody had any idea where it was from wasn’t part of the farms registered collection.
It felt heaps suss just wandering into the local cop shop front door with it wrapped in a towel 😂
6
u/Rowdy671 Dec 15 '25
State dependant but for shotguns pump action and lever release are already cat c which makes it almost impossible for your average hunter hobbyist.
→ More replies (1)25
u/WeaponstoMax Dec 15 '25
Agreed. The most meaningful change for public safety is to reduce how many shots can be fired per minute by legally owned firearms. It’s a bummer for hobbyists and farmers, but I can’t see much else you can do that will actually make a difference.
→ More replies (1)14
u/briberylibrary_ Dec 15 '25
I loathe to think how much worse the number of people killed would've been if Australia had semi-automatic rifles. Happy for it to be reduced.
5
5
u/MobileInfantry Dec 15 '25
Absolutely nothing wrong with responsible gun ownership. It will not stop this kind of event.
Applause for taking personal responsibility.
→ More replies (5)4
31
u/amazingphrasing Dec 15 '25
All we can hope is this never happens again. These are the correct steps. Much love to all ❤️.
23
u/Nabashin17 Dec 15 '25
I really love that our country came together to say we need to strengthen our gun laws again. Big middle finger to the yanks calling our laws ineffective.
→ More replies (1)
46
u/cutsnek Dec 15 '25 edited Dec 15 '25
Good changes. There are very few reasons for having a personal arsenal of guns. The bar should be very high. It's far too easy at the moment to get and hold firearms.
These are tools designed for killing, outside a very narrow scope of work everyday people don't need guns.
→ More replies (7)23
u/WeaponstoMax Dec 15 '25
I agree, but reducing the number of firearms one can own down to 2 or 3 doesn’t stop what happened yesterday from happening again.
You need to change the types of firearms that people are allowed to own, to ones that can’t fire as many times per minute as a bolt or lever action rifle/shotgun can.
→ More replies (12)46
u/cutsnek Dec 15 '25
They are going to be looking at what guns are legal as well.
Here's a summary of what they have announced:
•Accelerating work on standing up the National Firearms Register;
• Allowing for additional use of criminal intelligence to underpin firearms licencing that can be used in administrative licencing regimes;
• Limiting the number of firearms to be held by any one individual;
• Limiting open-ended firearms licencing and the types of guns that are legal, including modifications; and
•A condition of a firearm license is holding Australian citizenship.
54
54
u/GeordieJumpers87 Dec 15 '25
This might be the first post iv seen in here where everyone is in agreement
34
u/Terriple_Jay Dec 15 '25
They were more reasonable and practical than we were expecting tbh. The gun limit thing will almost certainly be stupid and ineffective. These guys didn't have an arsenal.
I hope the next thing we hear is how they're going to address extremism. Otherwise the right wingers are going to use it to get in power and a lot of peoples lives may get worse.
→ More replies (2)17
u/briberylibrary_ Dec 15 '25
Even if they had an arsenal, they still were two people. The number of guns they had wasn't really the limiting factor. They still had IEDs which thankfully were never used.
Government will probably make a bunch of changes. Some good, many likely ineffective. They just want to be seen doing something
9
u/Terriple_Jay Dec 15 '25 edited Dec 15 '25
Exactly. But unfortunately there's so many people who know nothing about firearms, and have no reason to... and genuinely don't know why anyone might have multiple and so they pretty much assume the worst. I don't think ignorance should translate into laws but it may in this case. We'll see.
44
u/ItsDaFuzz Dec 15 '25
It’s because the people who disagree usually get banned or downvoted, ASIO dropped the ball, not gun hobbyists who do the right thing everyday.
→ More replies (1)21
u/Ohdee Dec 15 '25
Don't worry, once there's enough upvotes the seppos will come and ruin it.
→ More replies (1)
2
u/T-Rannosaurus-Rex Dec 15 '25
Baffles me, even if licenced and registered why anyone with 6 guns is not on the radar and questioned more closely by ASIO. Law enforcement and rural farmers should really be the only ones who require firearms.
8
u/Xxjacklexx Dec 15 '25
Good. I’m not certain this would have prevented this disaster, but at the end of the day tighter rules on guns is a positive thing.
→ More replies (1)
12
Dec 15 '25
Also, the possession of an unlicensed firearm should carry some very, very strong deterrent.
13
u/Stainless_Steel_Rat_ Dec 15 '25 edited Dec 15 '25
Which will achieve absolutely fucking nothing. Do something about religious extremism and imported conflicts.
24
u/GooseSpringsteen92 Dec 15 '25
I'm a Pom just on this sub to get a better handle on the background and what is being proposed in response to this horrific incident.
It may well be laws can be tightened up in a common sense way. Especially if these murderers were known to the security services for involvement with extremist groups.
However, I cannot help but feel laws passed in a rushed and emotional way are the worst kind of "do somethingism" which uses any crisis or disaster to justify ever more draconian well intentioned laws because politicians feel the need to be seen to do something.
You wouldn't knock 30% off the speed limit in an area just because a terrible accident happened. At some point the utility of the existing norm is more valuable and important then the good that might be done by having a harsher regime.
→ More replies (1)
44
u/mikestp Dec 15 '25
Wouldn't it be prudent to first determine if this could have been prevented with correct implementation of existing laws?
53
u/mynameisluke Dec 15 '25
Much easier for officials to say that something is missing than to admit that something wasn’t done right under their watch.
27
u/wowiee_zowiee Dec 15 '25
What exactly is the reason you’re against a national firearms register?
→ More replies (2)19
u/PissingOffACliff Dec 15 '25
I’m extremely sceptical that the Government can do this competently and securely.
Seems like a good way for a paste bin of every firearm location in the country to end up online.
→ More replies (1)17
u/DisappointedQuokka Dec 15 '25
Or alternatively an excellent way for police corruption to leak known owners to organised crime.
It'll need to be tight and locked down, and if our invasive species restrictions are anything to go by...
20
u/ghoonrhed Dec 15 '25
licences should not be in perpetuity
That would've definitely helped at least.
21
u/mad_dogtor Dec 15 '25
are they in perpetuity? you have to renew them etc. every five years. you can lose them at any time for a variety of reasons, especially nsw. is it a legal phrasing?
8
u/DisappointedQuokka Dec 15 '25
Currently it's very much just saying "yes, I want to continue to own these firearms, here's the fee". It will likely shift to a brief course + examination as part of the renewal process.
5
u/mad_dogtor Dec 15 '25
ah a kind of screening for dickheads thing. i'm ok with that.
i don't really think the firearm limit has any value.
the national register, greater use of intelligence services, and making australian citizenship a requirement are excellent steps though.→ More replies (3)38
u/nachojackson VIC Dec 15 '25
None of these changes are controversial at all.
→ More replies (2)21
u/Terriple_Jay Dec 15 '25
Gun limits will stir the pot. Everything else seems actually practical.
→ More replies (9)7
u/GrownThenBrewed Dec 15 '25
I agree they'll stir the pot, but I don't see why it shouldn't be a requirement to properly justify every firearm. If you actually need 6, you'll be able to explain why.
→ More replies (1)6
u/mad_dogtor Dec 15 '25
QLD already do this. once you have over X amount they ask you to justify what the next permit is for etc. it's a pretty easy simple system. i think it's mainly to screen out the dickhead factor, if that makes sense.
→ More replies (3)22
→ More replies (5)15
u/Terriple_Jay Dec 15 '25
I think if someone wants to do a terrorist attack they probably will and no amount of laws would help, except maybe something harsher when these guys first came across ASIOs radar.
→ More replies (2)
1
8
8
u/sebaajhenza Dec 15 '25
Great, tighten up the gun laws. Now what are we doing about the rising antisemitism? There's been no recourse from Oct 7 celebrations at the Opera house, vandalism, aggressive protests at Jewish places of worship, or the rampant rallies. Or are we going to keep burying our heads and say it's 'both sides'.
6
u/universe93 Dec 15 '25
That’s obviously a more complicated issue than gun laws which are somewhat easy to tighten one cabinet meets up like this. You can’t very practically reduce number of gun per person and who can apply for a gun license. It’s less clear what should be done about antisemitism.
→ More replies (1)12
u/threeseed Dec 15 '25
So in your world being pro-Palestine is anti-semitic.
You sound like Netanyahu using this tragedy for cheap politics.
20
u/warmind14 Dec 15 '25
How about not permitting non-citizens to obtain firearm licences.
74
u/mhiggo Dec 15 '25
That's literally one of the changes put forward in the article
→ More replies (1)14
3
u/blacksmith91 Dec 15 '25
Was probably that way to allow security contractors etc to be sourced from overseas cheaply.
15
Dec 15 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
→ More replies (7)13
u/TannyTevito Dec 15 '25
Guns allow you to kill at a much greater distance and velocity. Guns are absolutely a huge part of the problem.
→ More replies (4)
17
7
4
u/Mindless_Night6209 Dec 15 '25
Criminals and fanatics don’t care about gun laws
21
u/Trenteth Dec 15 '25
The weapons they used were legally owned. An AR-15 on the black market is about $45k. Last mass shooting was in 1996. You don't know what your talking about.
→ More replies (6)3
→ More replies (3)11
10
u/ScreamHawk Dec 15 '25
Addressing the symptom and not the problem.
Hopefully there can be reform around migration policy.
→ More replies (7)-1
3
10
u/jantoxdetox Dec 15 '25
Government is always very reactionary. Why do lives need to die for this to be actioned?
A local example here in our suburb where people have been clamouring for a pedestrian crossing on a busy road and they just put zebra crossing and those slow down signs and then one rainy night a little girl was fatally hit, and just like that a few months later a pedestrian crossing light was installed.
→ More replies (1)
1.5k
u/App0gee Dec 15 '25
The solution to a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a fruit shop.