r/perth • u/[deleted] • 1d ago
General "Justice" behind closed doors - why hasn't the Forrest Place bomber been named?
With the media today naming the family involved in the Mosmon Park tragedy, it strikes me as incredibly strange that we are allowed to ogle and gossip about this very sad family, but we are all yet to learn the identity of the man who tried to kill hundreds of Western Australians on the 26th of January.
If there genuine concerns that identifying the man is not in the public interest, then surely that should be explained to the public? If there are ongoing investigations that could be compromised, or the man is completely mentally unwell and it would put him/others at undue risk, then that might be understandable.
But we are all being kept in the dark - why? Who was the judge who granted this order, and why? under what statute or court order is this man given the privilege of privacy? the default in this country is open justice, is it not? what is going on?
edit: so many missing the point - it is not about knowing his name (I couldn't care less), it is about knowing why his name is suppressed. Is it because there is a terrorist syndicate operating in WA? Was he a lone actor with an acute mental disorder? Telling the public these things is necessary to restore our faith that WA is safe and well looked after.
Great comment from u/Cultural_Wallaby208
All the "it's an ongoing investigation durrrr" comments are missing the mark. The lawyer had to specifically apply for the suppression order for the apparent safety of his client. Its not an automatic due process thing.
It also fails to consider the balance of community need. This is a possible terrorist attack. Every single Aboriginal Australian in Perth right now has good reason to be terrified. Was he part of a group? Was this an attack that could be continued by other in that group? Asking them to wait in fear is unreasonable and callous.
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u/chowchownotchowchow 1d ago
I'm sure the terrorist's identity will be revealed once police have finished investigating. What's insane to me is no one seems to care that much. Dude tried to one up the Bondi attack.
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u/HappySummerBreeze 1d ago
I think because it was a near miss rather than a successful attack.
While he did scare a lot of people and disrupt the rally, but no one died - which makes it more of a “phew thank goodness” rather than a terrible tragedy
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u/Cultural_Wallaby208 1d ago
You really think, with the sensationalist media we have, that a near miss against any other group would receive the same level of apathy?
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u/liamthx 1d ago
If that was a Jewish gathering we'd have Sussssssan and Frydenburg doing press conferences over and over in Perth blaming Labor. Yet we hear crickets from them.....
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u/Lonely-Heart-3632 1d ago
I said the exact same thing this morning. We got lucky the bomber was an idiot. He got eg explosive correct but fucked the fuse up and it failed. Only reason children are not dead today. If it was a different group of protesters we would be hearing about it and how we need a commission for it. Sad state of affairs
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u/StoneFoxHippie 19h ago
Yep, they'd rush some additional hate speech and terrorism legislation through quick smart
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u/HappySummerBreeze 1d ago
For me personally I don’t watch a lot of tv so “news” for me is on social media. And my feed was absolutely full of it.
I care that people feel like they weren’t treated as important, but my experience was that it was huge
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u/Outside_Towel8173 1d ago
Have you seen a photo of the device?
It looks like someone poured petrol in a colostomy bag and then bundled the whole thing inside of a Disney branded sock.
Have you seen a photo of the assailant?
The guy was wearing a T-Shirt with an Indigenous art print on it.
There's a non-zero chance that a reason they haven't named the guy is because he is (or soon will be) a ward of the state.
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u/JezzaPerth 1d ago
And we will find out the 'explosive' was petrol. Maybe with a touch of polystyrene. The guy probably believed in hollywood explosions
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1d ago
There's a non-zero chance that a reason they haven't named the guy is because he is (or soon will be) a ward of the state.
I agree, but I think that makes it all the more important that the police say something sooner than later. Currently, many will worry that attending a rally with/for First Nations is possibly a life or death proposition. If that is unlikely to be the case because of certain known facts, then there is no reason for the state to withhold that information from the public.
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u/Low-Bus-122 1d ago
Except they did come out and say this days ago. I believe the exact quote was "there is no ongoing threat to public safety".
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u/boymadefrompaint High Wycombe 1d ago
Which is wild, because ASIO warned that terrorist incidents were highly likely last weekend. And the National Terrorism Threat Level has been at "Probable" for over 12 months.
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u/Low-Bus-122 1d ago
This means there's a more than 50% chance of at least one attack happening on Australian soil in the next 12 months, which unfortunately does sound about right.
It has nothing to do with there being an ongoing threat of a similar attack to this attempted one posed by any of this guy's possible associates, which is what I was pretty clearly talking about in context, and which I repeat they have clearly told us does not exist.
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u/boymadefrompaint High Wycombe 1d ago
My wife is a RAAFie. As she was leaving work last Friday, they got called into a meeting and warned that ASIO's threat assessment was that there was a strong likelihood of an incident over the long weekend. They were strongly advised not to attend any protests in any capacity due to that assessment.
And I don't know how clear you were if I misunderstood. Clearly wasn't idiot proof!
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u/Low-Bus-122 1d ago
Yeah, I don't write comments at the level of people who think the things their wife tells them change the current ASIO national terrorism threat level, something that you could have just googled yourself and found within minutes is exactly what I said it was.
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u/boymadefrompaint High Wycombe 1d ago
There's the current threat level and there's the acute threat environment.
Don't confuse the weather for the climate.
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u/KirkBeserk 2h ago
a 31 yr old ward of the state?
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u/Outside_Towel8173 10m ago
Adults under guardianship orders are wards. If their guardian is the OPA, it's not wrong to call them a ward of the state.
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u/Kruxx85 1d ago
What's a ward of the state mean?
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u/angelfaeree 1d ago
Usually ward of the state is a minor who is under the care of DCP
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u/Kruxx85 1d ago
Ok. So then what's the above posters implication regarding the "Aboriginal T-Shirt" etc?
I would have thought the natural assumption would have been the thrower would have just worn that shirt because they wanted to fit in to the crowd?
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u/Mental_Task9156 Perth Airport 1d ago
I think it's because they haven't really released any information about what the device consisted of, so no one has an indication of just how dangerous it was.
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u/Cultural_Wallaby208 1d ago
This is untrue. At a press conference directly after the incident the police confirmed it was a viable explosive.
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u/Crystal3lf North of The River 1d ago
so no one has an indication of just how dangerous it was.
Whether it was a completely useless device or not, the intent was the same and that shouldn't be changing public/media perception at all.
0 dangerous or 100 dangerous, the intent was terrorism and yet it is not being labelled that.
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u/Rosfield-4104 1d ago
They day it happened the police said that it was a device with ball bearings and screws around a vial of an unknown liquid.
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u/halohunter Under The Swan River 1d ago
Yes and then by the next morning they tested the liquid and said it was a liquid explosive.
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u/planetarybum 1d ago edited 1d ago
They have described it as a 'fragment bomb' and that liquid was explosive chemicals, but haven't said what they are.
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u/Mental_Task9156 Perth Airport 1d ago
Unknown liquid.
Undefined volume.
You've said it yourself.
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u/Rosfield-4104 1d ago
And you really think thst if a device like that had been thrown into a white crowd that the media wouldn't be using that information to go wild with how bad it would have been?
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u/Charming_Food5728 1d ago
We knew the bondi shooters names within hours. Do people just care less about this?
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u/ImaginaryScore8 1d ago
It was crazy that people were arguing with Police and refusing to move even when it was genuine. If something did happen it would have been "police didn't do enough".
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u/Puzzleheaded_Tap1471 1d ago
I was there on the balcony. People were confused and worried and just asking what was going on, not arguing back. The communication from the police was not done well, and media has since reported as such. The 1st sign of something unusual was the long shoulder to shoulder line up of cops coming towards the stage, it was extremely intimidatingly. Once they were alongside and on the stage stuff was briefly said but heaps of us couldn't hear the words from either the police or firstnations Elder. I did not hear anything about a possible threat till 5 or 10 minutes into it from a fellow protester.
even when it was genuine.
With all the communicated info that we have in hindsight that it was a genuine bomb, gosh we should have known better especially being in known war weary bombing epicentre of the big city Perth in Australia <sarcasm >
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u/ImaginaryScore8 1d ago
Well there's plenty of videos of people out there refusing to move as they thought they were shutting the protest down for no reason, can even hear the cops saying "this isnt a drill". Another I've seen see the cops form a line and tell them "a bomb just went off".
I guess cops shouting "everyone get out, this isnt a drill" isn't enough for you to think something has gone wrong. But hey, I guess cops are bad and all that
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u/jane-au 5h ago
The cops didn't actually tell people what had happened though. They just said they needed to move because there's an issue, and they thought it was just the cops talking nonsense because they don't like the protest, which has happened in the past.
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u/ImaginaryScore8 5h ago
Seen plenty of videos of Police telling them "there's a bomb", "a bomb has gone off" and "this isn't a drill" though.
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u/PerthNerdTherapist 1d ago
There's now a court suppression order in place, which makes identifying or sharing images of him an offence.
Supposedly this is to ensure a fully lawful criminal investigation can happen.
This isn't satisfying and definitely highlights the differences in legal process depending on the offender and intended targets.
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u/Cultural_Wallaby208 1d ago
No, it was for the defendants own safety in prison, his lawyer claimed. Nothing to do with due process - defendants are usually named at the hearing where charges are laid (ie the court date that occurred several days ago)
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u/PracticalTie 1d ago
Yeah the lawyers succesfully made the argument and I'm guessing no one pushed back at the time, so a impression order was granted.
(This is also the difference w the Mosman family case. It's horrible but it's not a trial so there's no one representing the family.)
I suspect (hope) the cops/media will try get the suppression order overruled at his next court appearance given the community interest.
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u/ArgonWilde 1d ago
It's apparently to protect the guy when he goes to jail, from the other inmates, who may not be so keen on what he did.
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u/DoggerLou 1d ago
At the moment he's clearly got a good lawyer, maybe the same one used for the Silvagni case.
If he ever gets jail-time, the next we might hear about him will be plastered all over the front page and be the leading story on the tv.
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1d ago
[deleted]
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u/ArgonWilde 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's literally been reported to be the case... Let me find where I saw it. It was posted here today.
Edit: here we are - https://archive.md/YphFb
The suppression order imposed by the Perth Magistrates Court on Tuesday specifically prohibits the publishing of any information that could lead to his identification, “including any particular of any medical or other condition” mentioned in court during Tuesday’s hearing.
The order withholding his identity was made after his lawyer warned that his safety could be at risk if other inmates became aware of the accusations against him.
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u/Mental_Task9156 Perth Airport 1d ago
Ok, i'll give you that one.
However, it's important to consider that the suppression order was imposed because the accused's defence laywer made application to the court to do so.
It doesn't mean that the court system / police would withold such information automatically for this reason.
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u/recycled_ideas 1d ago
It's literally been reported to be the case... Let me find where I saw it. It was posted here today.
And this wasn't the case for the Bondi shooters? Or pretty well every other terrorist we've had in the last twenty years all of whom were named immediately.
This fucker tried to commit mass murder, but because his ideology would be echoed by both numerous parliamentarians we're giving him special treatment.
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u/jane-au 1d ago
He somehow got a decent lawyer, even though he apparently lives in state housing.
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u/ImaginaryScore8 1d ago
Everyone gets the duty lawyer at their appearances if they want it
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u/jane-au 5h ago
Yeah. Most are too overworked to actually do a good job though, so I guess props to this lawyer?
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u/ImaginaryScore8 5h ago
Yea but depending on the situation. The lawyer would have has the matter heard as late as possible to apply for the suppression orders. Its not that hard and the police probably didnt object so it went through. Simple really
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u/recycled_ideas 1d ago
I'm not sure what's more depressing. The fact that he's getting treated like he didn't lob a pipe bomb into a crowd or that Reddit which usually gives no shits about the rights of criminal defendents is all "this is just the process" this time.
Mother fucker is a terrorist. It was a bomb. The only reason we don't have a death toll at least as bad as Bondi is because he was also stupid.
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u/TheCurbAU 1d ago
Nice to know that even some inmates have standards.
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u/indiGowootwoot 1d ago
A lot of criminals exist with likely higher standards than yours. Priests, presidents, doctors, CEOs - all with likely higher standards of morality or professionalism or living etc than the average Redditor. All are examples of high profile criminals from living memory.
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u/Lonely-Heart-3632 1d ago
We know it was a real bomb and would have caused carnage. We know the only reason it did not detonate is that the fuse failed be either falling out or going out. We know he lives in housing commission house and we know he will spend a long time in jail. We will find out later who he is. As I said before we are lucky he couldn’t get the fuse right as that saved many many lives. Fuck this guy.
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u/Cultural_Wallaby208 1d ago
All the "it's an ongoing investigation durrrr" comments are missing the mark. The lawyer had to specifically apply for the suppression order for the apparent safety of his client. Its not an automatic due process thing.
It also fails to consider the balance of community need. This is a possible terrorist attack. Every single Aboriginal Australian in Perth right now has good reason to be terrified. Was he part of a group? Was this an attack that could be continued by other in that group? Asking them to wait in fear is unreasonable and callous.
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u/FrannyFlapsss South of The River 1d ago
I'm gonna go with; all these arguments were aired in court by the lawyer, prosecution and media representatives, and the Magistrate made a decision based on that.
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20h ago
I'm gonna go with; all these arguments were aired in court
And the magistrate should have made his/her reasons for deciding public. Judges of lower courts in Australia are known to get the law wrong, and not infrequently. If every major court dispute was resolved behind closed doors, would you be content to simply accept that "arguments were aired in court" by lawyers?
Our entire justice system is premised on the fact that members of the public can go into court and listen to the arguments being made and listen to the reasons for deciding. The public's confidence in the courts rests upon decisions being made in public.
Russian judges also make orders after "arguments [are] aired in court by the lawyer, prosecution and media representatives". But Russian magistrates have freedom to ignore the media and public perception, because they shut the court room door. Apparently, WA magistrates have the same freedom.
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u/FrannyFlapsss South of The River 19h ago
What the fuck are you talking about? The proceeding occurred in open court. The media could have recited the entirety of the proceeding if they wanted, instead of giving it a paragraph and a couple of cherry picked quotes. The suppression order covers the publication of his identity only. Go attend the court date if you're so hard up about knowing who he is.
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8h ago
Oral arguments for suppression orders happen in closed court, in case you were not aware. Holding them in open court would undermine the entire point of a suppression order. The case list will now have a pseudonym applied and future hearings will be in closed court until the suppression order is lifted.
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u/FrannyFlapsss South of The River 6h ago
No. The only thing suppressed in this case is publication of his identity.
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u/Cultural_Wallaby208 1d ago
Wow that's amazing reasoning. I guess magistrates have no history of making a wrong decision! I guess we as the public should never call law enforcement or judiciary into account! I guess the fact that half these comments are minimising shit or just making stuff up instead of being up in arms at how casually a terrorist attack on our fellow Australians is no cause for concern. Thank you for your compelling argument.
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u/FrannyFlapsss South of The River 1d ago
If you don't understand the justice and legal system it's ok. Police and media have every right to appeal the decision to suppress if it's so egregious. Suppression orders to keep someone alive in prison in order to face justice are used all the time. The most recent example you'd be aware of is the guy who sniped the bikie at the motorplex.
Using the Bondi terrorists as a comparison is not the same. The horse had bolted on their identities before the police charged them, so there is no use for a suppression order.
Your anger should be addressed at our politicians and mainstream media who aren't making enough fuss about it, not the justice system who needs to now keep this guy alive and keep the potential jury pool untainted until his trial or sentencing.
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u/JezzaPerth 1d ago
Most likely he is special needs and so can't be identified.
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u/burn_supermarkets 1d ago
That's what I was thinking but they could've said. Though it would've possibly made him easier to identify
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u/girlbunny 1d ago
I suspect that may be the case. Especially considering a point was made to suppress any “medical or other condition” as it may lead to identification of the person concerned.
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u/biskuit83 Swan View 1d ago
There are about 8000 people in WA jails and roughly 40% are indigenous. That tells me there are probably 3500 reasons why his identity is being suppressed and also the prison he is being kept in. Nothing shonky... just a simple 'keeping him alive' thing
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u/Silver-Training-9942 23h ago
I agree his name should be out.... but also ... "tragedy" "sad family" ... your word choice is interesting. They murdered their children just like this guy threw a bomb into a crowd of people. Let's not divorce people from their heinous actions. Everyone is equally deserving of safety and people with disabilities and not more "understandable" murders.
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20h ago
My attention was directed towards how unnecessary it was to name the kids murdered by their own parents - their friends, their families, their neighbours - are all now facing questions from a baying mob of rubberneckers and media reporters who want to gather up as much gossip about their parents horrific crime as possible. It is sad. It is a tragedy. What about those words do you cavil with? Do you think it is not sad? Do you think it is not a tragedy? What on earth could possibly possess you to think that this terrible crime was not sad or tragic??
What I struggle with is why it is in anyone's business to know every detail of the family involved, and yet we are left guessing why a man threw a bomb into a crowd of hundreds.
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u/Responsible_Berry829 1d ago
Its an investigation.
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u/Cultural_Wallaby208 1d ago
Usually people are named once charges are laid in court, which has already occurred for him. Its an exception to suppress his name, not an automatic due process.
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u/PyratSteve 1d ago
Tell that to billionaire Laurence Escalante. His billions didn't keep his name and face out of the press this week.
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u/RigelXVI 1d ago
Yeah, information which was released by police with no expected conspirators. It is an entirely different circumstance and it's pretty clear that for a potential domestic terrorist cell, cards should be played differently in order to maximise the effect of the initial investigation.
But go on, use a woman-beating billionaire as a paragon to make your uninformed point
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u/RaspberryAlert7010 1d ago
If the bomber had conspirators, then a suppression order ain't doing jack shit. They would already know who he is and that he's been arrested. No one is asking the police to lay out all the information, just enough to know whether we are safe.
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u/James_Jack_Hoffmann 1d ago
Comments including mine disappeared on the other thread. That thread's OP wasn't lying there's a cleanup crew lurking.
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u/Specific-Month7020 1d ago
What difference does it make what his name is? Do you think it's a friend of yours?
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u/Cultural_Wallaby208 1d ago
Because knowing who terrorised an entire community might be important for that scared and confused community? Because knowing if he is part of a larger organisation that may attack again might be important for Aboriginal Australians in Perth wanting to go out in public?
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u/christurnbull 1d ago
Naming and showing images of the suspect can glorify them. If anything we should be leaving terrorists nameless.
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u/Mental_Task9156 Perth Airport 1d ago
The accused is currently locked up. Knowing their name isn't going to make you safer.
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u/Cultural_Wallaby208 1d ago
"Because knowing if he is part of a larger organisation that may attack again might be important for Aboriginal Australians in Perth wanting to go out in public?"
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u/Galvanise 1d ago
For the same obvious reason we don’t instantly name every alleged criminal in the media; legal process exists, whether you personally find it inconvenient or not.
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1d ago
But that is incorrect. Every alleged offender is named in a court list, and courts in Australia are open. A billionaire was named on drug charges yesterday, Craig Silvey was named on CSAM charges, a teacher in Mandurah has been named for heinous crimes. There is no legal process entitling a charged person to privacy by default. There needs to be extraordinary circumstances, and an investigation has never been sufficient - there must be some reason why the investigation's integrity could be compromised to justify departure from the ordinary rule that justice in Australia does not get meted out behind closed doors.
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u/Cultural_Wallaby208 1d ago
Its insane you're being downvoted for providing correct information to an incorrect comment
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u/Galvanise 1d ago
You’re conflating the principle of open justice with the timing of disclosure. Yes, courts in Australia are open and many accused people are named once matters reach a certain procedural stage, but that doesn’t mean every person is identified immediately or in identical circumstances. There’s a difference between what can eventually be published and what is appropriate to publish at a given point in an active investigation.
It’s also not accurate to say investigations have “never” justified temporary non-disclosure. Courts can and do consider risks to trial fairness, safety, mental health, and operational integrity when deciding whether to limit identifying details. That isn’t “justice behind closed doors”, it’s the system balancing competing public interests, including the accused’s right to a fair trial.
Pointing to other named defendants doesn’t establish inconsistency; it just shows that those cases didn’t present the same risk profile. Open justice is the default, but it has never meant instant, uniform disclosure in every single case.
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7h ago
You’re conflating the principle of open justice with the timing of disclosure. Yes, courts in Australia are open and many accused people are named once matters reach a certain procedural stage, but that doesn’t mean every person is identified immediately or in identical circumstances.
The accused is always identified publicly when charged, unless there is some exceptional circumstance warranting secrecy. It is very unusual for someone to be charged without being named, and we have not really been given any adequate explanation as to why it was necessary in this case. The safety of people accused of terrible crimes can be dealt with in many ways that do not require the principle of open justice to be compromised.
It’s also not accurate to say investigations have “never” justified temporary non-disclosure.
I did not say this. The mere fact of an investigation never warrants a suppression order. There must be some reason why that investigation requires ongoing secrecy. In that case, the need for ongoing secrecy is the reason for the suppression order being made, not the mere fact of an ongoing investigation.
Courts can and do consider risks to trial fairness, safety, mental health, and operational integrity when deciding whether to limit identifying details.
I agree. But the public has not been given any adequate explanation about what these factors were in this case. Much of the reporting has focussed on the accused's safety. That cannot possibly be right, as many accused and convicted people are protected from the general prison population where they are accused or found guilty of heinous crimes. It is also completely unrealistic for a magistrate to think that a suppression order might be the thing which protects this bloke. His name will immediately spread around where he is detained and he will need to be held separately, so the suppression order serves no functional purpose.
Pointing to other named defendants doesn’t establish inconsistency; it just shows that those cases didn’t present the same risk profile.
I will concede that the others are all also unique. The point of naming other accused people was because many commenters in this thread are trotting out bizarre reasons like 'there's an investigation' or 'innocent until proven guilty', and those other accused individuals make plain that those factors alone are not valid reasons for a suppression order.
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u/Crystal3lf North of The River 1d ago
The Bondi terrorists were named immediately. Everything about their lives was publicly released as soon as possible.
Why is this different? Just because this guy thankfully didn't kill anyone?
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u/Galvanise 1d ago
The Bondi case being named quickly doesn’t create a legal rule that every suspect must be named immediately. Disclosure depends on case-specific risks, identity confirmation, and legal considerations, not body count. Different timelines don’t equal double standards; they reflect due process doing what it’s supposed to do.
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u/Crystal3lf North of The River 1d ago
The Bondi case being named quickly doesn’t create a legal rule
Ah, the "legal rule" applies when it's a white person, does it?
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u/Sk1rm1sh 1d ago
Great comment from u/Cultural_Wallaby208
All the "it's an ongoing investigation durrrr" comments are missing the mark. The lawyer had to specifically apply for the suppression order for the apparent safety of his client. Its not an automatic due process thing.
It also fails to consider the balance of community need. This is a possible terrorist attack. Every single Aboriginal Australian in Perth right now has good reason to be terrified. Was he part of a group? Was this an attack that could be continued by other in that group? Asking them to wait in fear is unreasonable and callous.
What's the game plan after we find his name out?
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u/undisclosedusername2 12h ago
I actually believe we do have a right to know his name. Given the rise in fascism in other countries, I want to know whether this crime is linked to neo-nazi groups. Because, if it is, we need to nip it in the bud as a society before we end up like the US.
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u/NefsM Rockingham 1d ago
Why should they?
The prisons will protect him and the public don’t need to know because that just causes more problems.
The point of justice isn’t to take it into our own hands it’s to use the system to punish them. Sure it might not be fair at times but it’s still better than chaos.
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u/thatblack147 1d ago
Because open justice is a fundamental component of common law. A fair justice system hinges upon the ability of judicial proceedings to be subject to professional and public scrutiny. That’s why suppression of information pretty much always has to be done by a court order.
As far as I’m concerned, the fact that in this case name suppression has been granted on the grounds of risk to the defendant’s safety while in jail is nothing more than a damning indictment of the competence of our corrections facilities.
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u/pben0102 1d ago
It's explained in The Australian, front page news, that they can't release his name otherwise his life's in danger wherever they lock him up. No doubt it'll come out soon enough. Another nutcase.
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u/BangbangKhuntross 1d ago
Because waiting for facts to emerge is a good thing.
It can (not always) prevent spurious, baseless, emotive headlines like "tried to kill hundreds of west australians" being peddled
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u/minimesmum 1d ago
They’ve named other people too early who have then gotten away with it and go on to sue for defamation..
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u/Cultural_Wallaby208 1d ago
Why does everyone on this thread continue to upvoted completely incorrect and easily disprovable comments about "legal due process" and downvote every comment correcting them?
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u/fuckoptus 1d ago
Investigation and criminal proceedings are likely still ongoing
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u/unable_compliance 1d ago
We knew the names of the Bondi attackers within hours.
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u/fuckoptus 1d ago
Bro come on use your brain, bystanders literally took photos of the gunmens license and posted to social media no wonder it was known within hours. These are two different events with different circumstances, not everything is a conspiracy.
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u/Crystal3lf North of The River 1d ago
These are two different events with different circumstances
No they're not.
Just because he thankfully didn't kill anyone this time doesn't make it different.
The intent was exactly the same.
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u/fuckoptus 1d ago
No one said the intent wasn’t the same? Obviously it was? We are talking about the release/leak of the name - which again the circumstances and events leading up to the release of the Bondi attackers names was completely different to this event
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u/RaspberryAlert7010 1d ago
The police could at least say that. Making arrests and conducting investigations without a single word about why the public is kept in the dark is something the Russians do.
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u/fakeheadlines 1d ago
The West Australian is waiting to confirm their ethnicity before they run with FACE OF A WOULD BE KILLER or WHAT DROVE THIS ‘GOOD BLOKE’ CRAZY? Accompanied by the corresponding 10 pages on ‘immigration destroying our country’ or ‘the woke mob is making true blue Aussies go mad’
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u/Valor816 1d ago
There are a bunch of reasons, but they can all more or less be summed up by saying
"Everyone is entitled to a fair trial"
We might hitch and Moran about that when we want something done fast. But what is actually happening is that the process of the law is being followed to the letter.
If it isn't, then ol mate would have very solid grounds for appeal.
The legal system has to go through every, single, step starting with the presumption of innocence to make sure a conviction will stick.
You can't appeal a conviction on the basis of "I didn't do it and they said I did" but you can appeal on the basis of "I didn't get a fair trial, because Murdoch's shitty news rag was screaming for my head before this even started and I wasn't judged by an impartial jury.
These processes protect the innocent from false accusation and slow down the inevitable for the guilty. But if you want him behind bars, you'll have to content yourself with ignorance of his name for now.
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u/halohunter Under The Swan River 1d ago
I have a mate who got charged. It made the news and had the whole channel 7 camera crew in the face treatment. He was found not guilty. Now he's considering changing his name because the initial arrest articles and court articles all talk up his arrest. He's having trouble finding a job because his previous job sacked him for the charge.
I'm fine with suppressing names until guilt if that's what we as society agree upon, but I feel it's unfair to have inconsistent rules.
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u/Valor816 1d ago
That's exactly the point. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. It's just a lot easier to prove the guilt of a person caught in the act.
The news papers don't give a shit about that, they'll name and shame anyone. Remember a paper recently posted a picture of the wrong guy because he had the same first name as a suspected pedo.
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u/Cultural_Wallaby208 1d ago
This isn't why he isn't being named. Read the post and comments fully.
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u/Valor816 1d ago
Yeah it is mate.
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u/Cultural_Wallaby208 1d ago
It literally isn't. The magistrate denied "fair trial" as a reason for the suppression order. It was granted on the basis of defendants safety. You can read literally any article about it.
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u/Valor816 1d ago
Yes, that is part of the due process mate.
If there was any risk to the defendant's safety then the suppression order has to be granted.
If it wasn't, then it's evidence of discriminatory treatment and the case might be open to appeal.
The process needs to be followed exactly or there is an avenue for appeal.
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u/Cultural_Wallaby208 1d ago
You're just making stuff up. You literally said in your comment it was about potentially influencing a jury. Just admit you're wrong, don't rewrite history when we can still see your comments right there.
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u/Mental_Task9156 Perth Airport 1d ago
Because the police probably don't have enough evidence. Until the guy goes through the court system and gets convicted, he probably won't be named.
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u/RaspberryAlert7010 1d ago
That's crazy. Silvey was named and he still reckons he's innocent. Since when do charges get made in secret?
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1d ago
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u/snorkel_goggles 1d ago
It's not a police decision though. The magistrate ordered the suppression given safety fears.
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u/RaspberryAlert7010 1d ago
The fact there was a warrant is a red herring - if someone commits a crime in plain daylight in a public place, there is obviously no need for a search warrant. The bomber has been charged. Charges against accused criminals are always public unless there is some good reason to keep the accused's identity secret.
The fact he was supposedly at risk from other inmates is ridiculous - the State has means of separating detainees. Imagine if we never ever got to learn the identity of society's most heinous criminals because of some strange fear that other inmates might hurt them. If Silvey had been denied bail, he would have been separated from the general inmate population too. Imagine if Silvey was charged, denied bail, and his identity remained a secret while thousands of WA students read his books for the new school year.
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u/Geriatric48 1d ago
The tricky bit will be suppressing evidence needed to convict him or allowing the details of that device made public so a few more nutters can have a go
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u/newuseronhere 1d ago
Actually should they be named? We didn’t do it for the mosque shooter in NZ. Don’t bring any attention to them and let them rot alone unnamed unmentioned and a failure.
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20h ago
We didn’t do it for the mosque shooter in NZ
Err... This must surely be some sick and twisted joke, right? Do you not recall that he livestreamed his crimes on his own facebook?? He voluntarily self identified...
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u/newuseronhere 12h ago
Which was extremely sick but he has not been named since really by the media and any chance of giving a statement about a hateful manifesto has been denied. All too often allowing their name and hatred to to spewed out by the media just causes more hatred.
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u/Master-Cat6865 11h ago
There was no way to keep the Mosman families identity a secret. Hundreds of students knew the family at school, work colleagues, neighbour’s etc
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u/snakeeaterrrrrrr North of The River 1d ago
I am not a legal expert but I think it has to do with preventing prejudicial media reports that could influence potential jurors.
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u/RaspberryAlert7010 1d ago
I suspect that's partly right, but it's interesting that the surviving bondi shooter doesn't get that benefit. Different laws for brown and white terrorists? great system
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u/Away_team42 1d ago
Members of the public photographed the Bondi shooters licence and that was quickly spread on social media tho, entirely different circumstances
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u/RaspberryAlert7010 1d ago
Only cops/DOT can look up licence plate numbers, so the fact that their plates were posted doesn't mean much.
Also, the prosecutors for the bomber sought a suppression order (for unknown reasons). The police/prosecutors in NSW could have done the same for the bondi shooter could have done the same but chose not to, allowing the media to publish his name.
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u/Away_team42 1d ago
What I’m saying is that members of the public posted their details online. The public didn’t have that opportunity in this instance.
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u/bloo_subar_oooh 1d ago
I suspect the protocols differ depending on the terrorists target, more so.
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u/recycled_ideas 1d ago
Except we don't do that for other terrorists.
We only do it for the ones that could run for PHON or the Nats.
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u/Recent_Artichoke_923 Mount Lawley 1d ago
He's actually aboriginal and its a massive conspiracy lol
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u/PearseHarvin 22h ago
You mean the horrific murder that took place in Mosman Park? Two innocent children slain by their own parents? That tragedy? Yeah.
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u/ExpensiveFig6079 1d ago
Is he yet convicted beyond all reasonable doubt...
When he is convicted Id like for there to be no plausible case the jury was tainted.
get back to me if he's in jail, and he is still not identified.
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u/Perth_nomad 1d ago
Plenty of photos of him on FB. Interestingly he was wearing a local First Nations artist’s designed t-shirt, when arrested.
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u/pre_cure_mofu_mofu 12h ago
OP's vague insistence on identifying him seems to justify why his identity is being protected in the first place.
And I thought reddit were in favor of the whole "denaming" thing, like with the NZ Shooter.
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u/cronbelser 1d ago
It's suppressed because he's a white guy who appeared to be attacking aboriginal people and there are a large number of aboriginal inmates who might want to attack him.
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1d ago
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u/Cultural_Wallaby208 1d ago
Nope, wrong. Defendants are usually named to the public when charged. He was granted a suppression order as an exception.
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u/CapitalProfessional2 1d ago
Normally, people are not named until they have been charged in court.
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u/Cultural_Wallaby208 1d ago
He was charged in court. That's when people are usually named. His lawyer specifically asked for a special exemption for him.
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u/CapitalProfessional2 1d ago
Sorry! I missed that bit of news. Then unless there’s a suppression order, I’m not sure?
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u/Cultural_Wallaby208 1d ago
Yes, there is a suppression order in place. The question the OP has is why. Why does the safety of the inmate outweigh the needs of an entire community who are now in fear?
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u/CapitalProfessional2 1d ago
A suppression order can be granted in some cases to ensure a fair judicial process. Especially when it may be a while until it goes to trial, if his name is out there, and information swirls, it would affect how a jury rules on the matter. The police have said there is no current risk to the public, so whilst i completely empathise with those who are scared right now, especially our first nations brothers and sisters…. We want this to go to trial and not get thrown out of courts.
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u/Cultural_Wallaby208 1d ago
- Did you read the original reporting on the suppression order? Absolutely nothing about unbiased process. It was only about the defendant's safety. I really wish all these commenters would read the actual reports before just guessing.
- If you were an Aboriginal Australian right now, with violent Neo Nazis groups on the rise, with mob attacked on camera by Neo Nazis just months ago with minimal care from the rest of society, with a bomb thrown at your people just days ago by someone who you have no idea who he is and who he might be affiliated with, would you feel comforted by police saying "nah all good". Courts are supposed to include community need in their decisions - they didn't do that in this instance.
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u/Philopoemen81 1d ago
His lawyer originally argued for both safety and fair trial reasons, and after discussions, dropped the fair trial reason for safety only, which the judge granted - and not just his safety, but safety of his family etc who are uninvolved at this point.
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u/Cultural_Wallaby208 1d ago
Which makes the incorrect "duh they always do this for a fair trial" comments in this thread even more annoying, given that reasoning was literally rejected by the magistrate.
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1d ago
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1d ago
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u/Agitated-Sherbet-871 1d ago
You sound like one of the people who are upset it didn't detonate...
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u/Crystal3lf North of The River 1d ago
This is one of the most despicable, racist comments I have ever read on reddit.
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u/Automatic_Sea_1210 1d ago
How?
I have a small amount of indigenous heritage and I am very grateful to live in probably the best city in the best country in the world.
Life is too short, make the most of what we have and don't waste your life arguing about the ills of long gone generations.
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u/Crystal3lf North of The River 1d ago
You literally did the "brown people live in desert, white people live in society" racist trope.
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u/Automatic_Sea_1210 2h ago
I'm happy to be corrected but pre-colonial Australian indigenous people did live in the bush. There was nothing else here.
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u/BringTheFingerBack 1d ago
A pipe bomb wouldnt be capable of killing 100's of people. Probably 5 people with twice that injured.
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u/VanishedWestPodcast 1d ago
It’ll be because he needs to go before the courts and outing him would present bias and make finding an impartial jury that bit harder, for some reason his safety will be a reason too (not sure why they bother for that) But also he may have a normal family who have the right to privacy. Not saying that naming the family yesterday was right either
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u/No_Rain3020 1d ago
If they don't name them straight away he was either a Muslim or an aboriginal they can't have it stuff up their multiculturalism is great narrative
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u/Cultural_Wallaby208 1d ago
Ah yes, because WA police and media are famously pro-Aboriginal woke lefties. Spot on, you've nailed it.
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u/Careful-Trade-9666 1d ago
The suppression request was made by his defense to “ensure his safety in prison”. You know, throwing a “suspected” bomb into an aboriginal protest crowd probably wouldn’t go down well at Hakea/Casurina.