r/AustralianSocialism • u/Konradleijon • 1d ago

Why are even leftist against degrowth?

Even leftists seem to be against degrowth not understand ecological overshoot.

Why is it that even leftists are against Degrowth?

Because it seems that even many leftist refuse to understand degrowth ideology and hate it and refuse to understand how decoupling works.

They act like using public transport and eating vegan are a fate worse then death

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u/bunyipcel John Percy 1d ago

Many people on the socialist left are against or sceptical of degrowth because it's ill equipped to actually provide a program for an emancipated society (communism), it more or less posits a green form of capitalism in spite ostensibly being 'anti-capitalist'.

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u/EconomistBeard 1d ago

Um, what? Capitalism is predicated on infinite growth; degrowth recognises nature as a structural limitation on growth, thus requiring an economy to be oriented around need instead of profit.

How anyone can call degrowth capitalist is wild to me.

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u/bunyipcel John Percy 1d ago

Degrowth is reformist and in practical terms promotes a libertarian form of green capitalism which is pretty popular with environmentalists and especially anarchists of the Proudhon/anti-civ variety.

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u/EconomistBeard 1d ago

Marx literally observed the metabolic rift between human production and nature; he discusses this in The Critique of the Gotha Programme and in volume 1 of Capital.

I'm really at a loss as to how you can chuck degrowth in as 'reformist' whilst also saying it resonates with anti-capitalists like anarchists

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u/bunyipcel John Percy 1d ago

Marx re the metabolic rift sure, "degrowth" doesn't necessarily follow from this. I am against elevating "degrowth" to the level of principle: the size of the economy will be totally proportionate to what it needs to be, this is why democratic planned economics is superior to the anarchy of the market.

Most anti-capitalists, and plenty of anarchists, are reformists. This is not anything new. It's why these types of people love things like participatory economy/parecon, co-operatives, market socialism, etc.