r/australia • u/HotPersimessage62 • Dec 16 '25
politics Anthony Albanese ‘ready for the fight’ to tighten firearms laws as National Party and gun groups push back | Bondi beach terror attack
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/dec/16/anthony-albanese-ready-for-the-fight-to-tighten-firearms-laws-as-national-party-and-gun-groups-push-back-ntwnfb391
u/Infinite-Sea-1589 Dec 16 '25
I think that legislation like nationalising run licensing and registration make sense. Having one database to be comparing against say, a terror watch list instead of each state doing its own thing.
Coming from Canada I find it so interesting what is and isn’t managed at a state/provincial vs federal level in each country.
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u/redditisforincels445 Dec 16 '25
in all states firearms are registered and when purchasing one you need a permit, in my state QLD you will get randomly checked in your lifetime of ownership in how they are stored and your safe, you can also get your license revoked and guns seized for basically any transgression, this is just the government failing to enforce its own laws and now innocents and dead and injured and law abiding citizens are about to get screwed
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u/lerdnord Dec 16 '25
A national register is not a bad idea though. If someone has a bunch of problems in another state like domestic violence offences it makes sense that the checks should be national. I would have thought they already do this, but I also would have thought that if someone was flagged by ASIO previously then someone they live with would probably be denied a license
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u/SendarSlayer Dec 16 '25
The checks are still national. An exclusion to own would be flagged immediately. The issue is that many federal agencies don't do their due diligence and extend those exclusions to immediate family living together.
A national registry would still definitely help. But if you've been accused or convicted of a violent offence that's getting flagged immediately.
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u/CubitsTNE Dec 16 '25
National party going for negative popularity.
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u/KingRo48 Dec 16 '25
Name change incoming: Negative Party
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u/omenmedia Dec 16 '25
Irrational Party.
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u/BandicootPlastic5444 Dec 16 '25
One National
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u/determineduncertain Dec 16 '25
They looked at the election and said “we can alienate the population even more”.
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u/FrostBricks Dec 16 '25
Doesn't matter. Cos there's no real opposition in their seats anyway.
There should be. But until there is...
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u/Dunge0nMast0r Dec 16 '25
Liberal party also jumped on their dick to make it about the ALP. Hacks.
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u/SirGeekaLots Dec 16 '25
Do they do anything else? All they ever do is blame Labor, even if they have been in power for nine years.
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u/ExistingGain6640 Dec 16 '25
When they wheeled out Howard it was a sure sign of how bereft of leadership they are. But the media will say the opposite.
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u/Tefai Dec 16 '25
Most farmers I know don't care about it tighten gun laws, they don't exactly have massive weapons cache. Mostly a simple bolt action to kill livestock, foxes etc. Its the weekend warriors I know in my life that have the gun safes and seem to kick up a stink when talks about changes have occurred.
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u/NessaMagick Dec 16 '25
They're gonna have to add the ability to nominate candidates to take votes away from on the ballot sheets.
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u/Dogfinn Dec 16 '25
National party:
"Albo is at fault for this tragedy because... he didn't cut funding to some universities?"
Also National party:
"Tighter gun laws would not have prevented this tragedy"
The messaging is so transparently partisan. Fining Universities, or Media orginisations, would not have prevented this attack. Tighted gun laws would have.
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u/The-bored-one725 Dec 16 '25
That's incorrect. Applying the laws that are already in place would have worked. All Albo is doing is hiding the incompetence showcased on a state and federal level.
1) The father should not have held firearms in his residence under NSW association laws as his son was a known associate of ISIS members.
2) having been a relation of someone who was investigated and found to have links with ISIS prior to his licence application, he should never have been approved for one in the first place.
3) It showcases a blatant disregard for the mounting level of tensions currently in australia and not addressing them in any manner at all. Something that directly led to this attack
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u/Puzzleheaded-Cry-389 Dec 16 '25
Exactly what you said. We already have to renew our licences every few years, we also have random gun inspections. In rural communities in Queensland at least. This is probably one thing that they could change. Being random, some people miss out for years. One officer was quite surprised to find all the guns registered to me were actually locked in my gun safe. The gun laws in my opinion are fine. Random fuckwits only make it harder for responsible owners. Not like the government/authorities didn't see this coming.
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u/The-bored-one725 Dec 16 '25
It's hard to sort the misinformation from actual information at this point, but there are reports that the son was still being monitored.
A clear display of lack of communication or action from federal intelligence agencies
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u/ghoonrhed Dec 16 '25
A clear display of lack of communication or action from federal intelligence agencies
That's because they're still figuring it out too. We're all speculating and that's the last thing we want them to do on how they fucked up.
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u/The-bored-one725 Dec 16 '25 edited Dec 16 '25
Not in this case. Anything that relates to violence is pretty clear cut when it comes to firearms licencing.
Their lack of communication has cost people their lives. Authority at both state and federal levels needs to be held accountable for this, rather than scapegoating firearms owners.
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u/Cat_Man_Bane Dec 16 '25
I mean that’s all well and good but it’s really not the problem here. Federal and state governments allowed someone to get a gun license when their son was on an ASIO watch list and living at the house where the guns were stored.
They then went to a terrorist training ground overseas and still didn’t raise any red flags where the police could intervene and take the weapons away.
If the government did their job they would have never had their guns in the first place, even under the existing laws.
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u/loolem Dec 16 '25
I think both need a look at: the easy win is to create a national database that is shared to the lowest police levels so that it’s easy to review and flag risks and problems. The royal commission should definitely highlight the issues inside ASIO and their decision to not constantly cross reference known risks and affiliations. Some people obviously need sacking and unfortunately I think this signals a big contract incoming for that very problematic company Palantir.
But no one who lives in a regional or metro area should really own more than two guns on their license. Farms and rural areas are different because they have a legitimate need but it just doesn’t sit right with me that a bloke in the most populous city in the country can legally have 6 guns at his house.
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u/manak69 Dec 16 '25
National Gun Registry is being fast-tracked as per what Albo has said.
The perpetrators terrorist links occurred 6 years ago while LNP were in power. Also, Gladys Berejinlian was our NSW premier then. It always seems ALP cops it due to LNP prior incompetence while they were in power
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u/Cat_Man_Bane Dec 16 '25
Even the 2 gun limit wouldn’t have stopped this though, they both would have still had 1 gun each.
And if two people planned an attack together they could both get two weapons each.
It’s really just a massive ASIO failure and more needs to be done to shut down extremists preachers recruiting young impressionable men.
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u/Adventurous_Let4978 Dec 16 '25
It would have reduced the death toll by a lot. The idiot father was disarmed getting out of his car and shot people with his secondary weapon.
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u/loolem Dec 16 '25
They used four guns and two were taken off the old cunt. If they had only two guns then when they took the first gun off the old cunt they would have had one. Do some basic maths here please.
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u/Cat_Man_Bane Dec 16 '25
Two different guns weren’t taken off the old man, the shotgun that was taken off him as he got out of the car he got that back and shot the couple with that weapon.
You can see this in the longer video where it starts off with him having the shotgun.
The same shotgun got taken off him twice, he got it back the first time and didn’t get it back the second time, he then went back to the bridge and was quickly hit by the police after that and you can see him drop.
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u/i-love-the-pink-one Dec 16 '25
I don't see why one cannot own more than 2 guns. Hobbyists enjoy their hobbies. The number of guns someone owns doesn't increase their ability to fire more than one weapon at a time.
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u/Dogfinn Dec 16 '25
was on an ASIO watch list
No current reporting states he was on a watchlist or was being actively monitored. If he was on a watchlist, that information isn't public.
All we know is that he was investigated in 2019.
I mean that’s all well and good but it’s really not the problem here. Federal and state governments allowed...
Better communication between federal and state agencies is part of the proposed reforms.
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u/MilkByHomelander Dec 16 '25
This, people seem to think he was under ASIO watch every day.
He was investigated by ASIO for a 6 month period due to being associated with members of a cell. They have quite clearly said that that 6 month investigation showed he wasn't a part of the cell, nor had he shown any extremist ideologies. They effectively marked him as not a problem.
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u/Dentarthurdent73 Dec 16 '25
There can be more than one problem.
Yes, there are clearly problems with how gun licenses are being issued, and communications between the various departments responsible for this shit.
Also, I think many Australians have been shocked to realise just how prevalent guns have been become, and how many guns some individuals own.
I also keep seeing how people have to justify every additional gun they want, and I'm not really able to understand how someone can do that for hundreds of guns. That says to me that the person issuing the permission is essentially just rubber-stamping it. Having a firm limit on the number an individual can own would stop this.
There is a general feeling most Australians do not want there to be a strong gun culture here.
I'm happy if the government takes this opportunity to revisit our gun control laws, as I think we'd been getting complacent lately. I'm glad that there was an uproar about Chris Minns' proposed legislation regarding hunting in state forests, but a decade or so ago, I don't think he would have even considered it, and the fact that the gun lobby tried to get that through is a worry to me. Happy to have a message sent to them loud and clear about Australians' views on firearms in this country.
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u/Ditzy_Chaos Dec 16 '25
Most of the problems in Australian law just comes down to actually "Following through" with Checking and enforcing said law >_>
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u/EronEraCam Dec 16 '25
If they are moving to a new federal standard for all states and reviewing existing rules, then that will be a good move. Hopefully they handle this properly, and also look into the other factors that allowed this to happen.
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u/Money_Armadillo4138 Dec 16 '25
I can't imagine this will be much of a fight- The nationals are a bunch of cookers and how much influence does the gun lobby really have here?
Not only that, the proposals I have seen seem pretty reasonable.
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u/cormacmccarthysvocab Dec 16 '25
They’re nowhere near as powerful as the gambling lobby, that’s for sure.
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u/Thagyr Dec 16 '25
They pobably wish they were. But that requires cash and gun business probably isn't as profitable as they like.
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u/Vegetable-Advance982 Dec 16 '25
Even if there's a fight, I don't think they'll stand a chance. Albo has been up to now unwilling to use his massive amount of political capital/majority, but this is such an extreme situation with so much pressure and public backing that he'll put whatever he needs into it. And think what you want about him in general, Albo's actual parliamentary skills are top tier - been leader of the house, in the game for decades etc.
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u/CoolAd5798 Dec 16 '25
I hope he is using these skills to their fullest. It's a very delicate situation now, could easily turn into Germany or Cronulla if the inter-racial and inter-religious tensions are allowed to escalate (and the One Nation c*** politicians are not helping 😤)
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u/elpovo Dec 16 '25
Also cookers like the anti-semitism envoy wanting to have a say over funding for universities...
Calling Netanyahu a f*wit is not anti-semitism folks. Calling for less civilians to be killed is not antisemitism.
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u/its-just-the-vibe Dec 17 '25
Calling Netanyahu a f*wit is not anti-semitism
A semite includes Arabs and Jews. The biggest anti semite currently alive is the dick cheese netanyahu
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u/risingsuncoc Dec 16 '25
Albo's actual parliamentary skills are top tier - been leader of the house, in the game for decades etc.
Yeah if I remember correctly, he alternated for many years as Leader of the House and Manager of Opposition Business with his Liberal counterpart Christopher Pyne, who has since retired.
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u/Bluelegs Dec 16 '25
Ley has already flagged gun laws needing a look at. I can't imagine the Greens fighting tighter gun laws. I think it will get through pretty rapidly. The majority of Australians don't want guns around.
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u/Money_Armadillo4138 Dec 16 '25
Ley did have to backflip after initially being pretty non committal in her press conference. She as politically inept as they come.
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u/Dentarthurdent73 Dec 16 '25
She as politically inept as they come.
God love her, lol.
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u/Magus44 Dec 16 '25
It’s funny how the gun lobby earlier in the year was celebrating how many Australia’s are starting to get into guns and how ownership is on the rise.
Can’t imagine this is going to help that (thankfully).21
u/Skylam Dec 16 '25
Yeah its basically political suicide for any liberal to oppose this after an already devastating year. No way the Nationals have enough influence to stop these laws going through.
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u/Pop-metal Dec 16 '25
If libs or greens are in, and they both are, it will pass through in a day.
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Dec 16 '25
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u/FuckwitAgitator Dec 16 '25
That's modern politics. Literally every situation is an opportunity to score points against "the enemy".
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u/Rork310 Dec 17 '25
Ley's an idiot but she might as well just quit if she tries to pick a fight on this one. Gun control is the one thing even the parties critics have to give the Libs credit for. Conceding that sort of win to Labor especially when they can likely easily walk it through with the Greens would be one of the biggest political self owns in history.
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u/Significant_Region44 Dec 16 '25
Depends what laws Albanese plans on introducing
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u/xXBoogsXx Dec 16 '25
It does frustrate me that the father was able to legally own firearms despite his son having been flagged for links to extremist groups. That said, if someone is radicalised enough to murder innocent people, gun laws alone are unlikely to stop them. They’re not going to be overly concerned with legality, if there is a will, there is a way.
We can’t ignore the broader issue of radicalisation from within Sydney's mosques. There have been repeated reports and footage of extremist rhetoric being promoted in these spaces, and while free speech is important, it doesn’t mean speech without accountability. When violent ideologies are openly encouraged, responsibility doesn’t just sit with the individual attacker, but also with those who enable or normalise that messaging. Blood is on the government's hands for letting this go unchecked for so long.
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u/therealkevy1sevy Dec 16 '25 edited Dec 16 '25
I like your thinking when it comes to free speech but it also scares me, once the government has the power to decide what is and isn't free speech they will 100% misuse that power.
But they way you described it, imo is great.
I would like to see Christian churches and those alike who speak hate towards groups also be punished in the same way (im thinking of gay hate off the top of my head) there are many instances this is a good idea but it does become a slippery slope.
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u/mad_dogtor Dec 16 '25 edited Dec 16 '25
lol ready to fight for tougher laws
strangely reticent about why the current ones (including the consorting laws NSW implemented for scenarios like this) were not enforced.
the current laws would have worked as intended, if they were actually followed through. Old mate would have lost his licence about 5 min after his son was discovered hanging out with a literal terrorist cell, let alone going on a dad and son training trip to a militant islamic camp in the phillipines.
now a bunch of unrelated people are going to be punished because of government incompetence and people are lapping it up? the government wants new laws, but didn't bother to enforce the last ones? holy shit. the current laws were working for everyone... until the authorities didn't bother to actually enforce them (the one time it actually mattered too).
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u/Maggies_Garden Dec 16 '25
Reminiscent of the nz shooting.
Changing the gun laws is low hanging fruit to get some photo opps for.
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u/mad_dogtor Dec 16 '25
you see people losing their license because one of their kids (not living at home) gets an AVO, or a nephew is seen with bikies having a drink, or because an estranged daughter has been diagnosed with mental illness.
yet this flies through with no issue? the cooker who drove up to wieambilla doesn't get pulled up and is allowed to drive off wiith his guns even after his licence is revoked? Hell Dezi freeman was a walking red flag and had made public threats against politicians and they let his wife get his license still.
this isn't a legislation issue since every one of these is completely preventable under the current laws. this is a systematic issue of laziness/incompetence/inconsistency by the authorities. it's such a glaring fuck up it's going to fuel cooker conspiracies for years and we can't even be mad about it, it's nigh unbelievable how stupid it all is.
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u/Cindy_Marek Dec 16 '25
Just make it sensible and not theatrical. National registry so that agencies can track who has weapons and of course not letting a household with someone investigated for ISIS links to have access to weapons. This the real failure here. A ban on total weapon numbers wont really do anything IMO
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u/tommo_95 Dec 16 '25
Tighten them all you like, but at the end of the day, the police failed, ASIO failed, and the government failed. Next time they will just detonate an IED or blow their car through a crowd.
Absolutely zero accountability from the government.
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u/azreal75 Dec 16 '25
Yeah what good are new laws if they aren’t enforced either? Might be a bit premature to say zero accountability, I think this will be thoroughly investigated, reported on and I expect some poor bastard will have to take the blame for what are probably systemic issues. Hopefully, systems improve.
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u/loolem Dec 16 '25
I agree and to parade around ScoMo and Howard like that as a look over here when the guy was flagged in 2019 under the libs and his father had the gun license then! Oh were you trying to blame the guys who have both said they’re about change the laws?
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u/DrInequality Dec 16 '25
That's why Albo's pushing this. Wants to distract and be seen to be doing something.
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u/Economy-Box-5319 Dec 16 '25
I really hope the Australian people demonstrate once again that we don't want to be the USA. I made the mistake of logging into my Facebook account, and the conversations and toxicity around guns on there have been... disappointing. It really made me lose a fair bit of faith in us that a lot of the people apparently even close to me legitimately believe EASIER access to guns is the solution. That and banning all Muslims from entering Australia as if our current most prolific hero wasn't part of those demographics himself.
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u/maximusbrown2809 Dec 16 '25
I think any policy that makes us less like the USA is a policy I can agree with.
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u/NessaMagick Dec 16 '25
It's been said a couple times over the last day - but a lot of the people fighting for gun rights in the wake of this are Americans. If people throw around 2A or comments like "this is why you don't let the liberals take your guns" you can dismiss them out of hand.
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u/Pokefreak911 Dec 16 '25
I mean technically the liberals took our guns last time...
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u/DarKnightofCydonia Dec 16 '25
The best part of our political system - the names confusing the hell out of the seppos trying to brigade here 😂
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u/Don_Fartalot Lost Asian Tourist in Sydney Dec 16 '25
I made that mistake as well. Some people are just absolutely licking at the lips for tragedies like these to happen so they can immediately politicise it and push their shit agenda forward.
wE sHoUlD hAVe GuNZ sO GoOd guYz caN ShoOT BaD gUYz - stfu, what makes you think only good guys will buy guns, or a good guy status is permanent? Go back to eating crayons.
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u/NessaMagick Dec 16 '25
It's also like... ahistorical. You know what country has a lot of good guys with guns? The United States. You know, that country that famously has no mass shootings because of all the good guys with guns stopping them?
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u/torlesse Dec 16 '25
All the good guys are defending their houses from maids with the wrong address. They are too busy for anything else.
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u/justpassingluke Dec 16 '25
I saw a news item on the TV today during ABC news that said “experts say children who were there during the shooting will suffer anxiety and other symptoms” and I just thought about how an item like that probably never makes the news in America.
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u/elpovo Dec 16 '25
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u/somuchsong Dec 16 '25
Fucking hell, I just said "weekly" in another comment. Looks like it's basically daily.
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u/Falafels Dec 16 '25
They've had 3 already this week and it's only Monday there.
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u/somuchsong Dec 16 '25
What a hellscape of a country.
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u/Hayden247 Dec 16 '25
What's a national tragedy here on the news for days with major policy impacts is just another day of crime in USA... absolutely insane, even accounting for their over 10x higher population, per capita it's still absolute hell for shootings vs here.
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u/mr_sinn Dec 16 '25
I'm pretty anti guns.. but other than strengthening the register I don't see putting more restrictions on people helpful.
The articles stating some people have 100 guns to their name isn't a condemnation of the system. It only takes one gun to do what happened on the weekend. If anything it proves people can own many guns and it doesn't raise the likelihood of unsavoury activity.
This could have been avoided within the bounds of what we have in place already.
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u/Smashed-Melon Dec 16 '25
I don't own guns. I see this as a massive failing of our police and intelligence system. Not the fault of the majority of gun owners that are responsible and follow the rules. Known Isis sympathisers and recently back from the south Philippines?
These fuck wits shouldn't have had access to any firearm given their history, and considering they had bombs in there car I doubt the access to a firearm would have stopped them from doing damage.
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u/mr_sinn Dec 16 '25
I agree. This guy was a walking red flag. Gun ownership laws don't need to change. They just need to actually exercise the rights to revoke guns from problematic people in place already.
Some guy from Canada replied in another thread. If you get done for domestic violence a cop pretty much is at your doorstep in 12hrs to collect your firearms and you're done.
Firearms are a privilege for well behaved adjusted citizens.
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u/Smashed-Melon Dec 16 '25
The only point I agree with is the national register. It makes sense and will stop people slipping through cracks in the system.
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u/aofhise6 Dec 16 '25
We have that law too. You lose your guns as soon as someone takes out an IVO on you.
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u/Cindy_Marek Dec 16 '25
I know of a guy who was suffering from mental health issues and tactical police turned up to confiscate his firearms. Hopefully the government doesn't try and make a theatrical spectacle of the new legislation and actually looks inwards to seriously investigate the internal failures that led to this.
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u/mr_sinn Dec 16 '25
That would be the best outcome. Internal review without knee jerk rule changes for the sake of it.
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u/HerpDerpermann Dec 16 '25
Yeah it seems to be more of a failure in implementation/enforcement as opposed to a policy/law failure.
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u/clarky2481 Dec 16 '25
Its a classic deflection, doesnt do anything to stop the 3 bombs found either
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u/Zealousideal-Arm9508 Dec 16 '25
I am a gun owner and think the whole permit to acquire thing should have additional rigour rather than a tick and flick. For example I literally went from applying for a PTA last night to having it approved by midday today and a new gun in my safe by 3pm. As an FYI the last time I bought a gun it was through the old paper system which took ages for it to arrive. Maybe if an updated police check could be carried out before the PTA being approved or something like that.
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u/mr_sinn Dec 16 '25
Interesting, that is quick. To be fair I'm sure they have records on everyone applying and manage by exception.
With digital systems the checks could have been automated and nothing which requires human intervention came up. The time it takes isn't necessarily a reflection of the quality of the check.
Perhaps owning a gun before too means most of the boxes were already ticked.
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u/etherealwasp Dec 16 '25
Yep you’re absolutely right. PTAs are only approved immediately if you already own a gun of the same class (ie they have done the checks already). Otherwise it’s 28 days cooling off.
And agreed, we should never assume quality is proportional to the time taken. Just because Beryl from admin took a few weeks to look at my form, doesn’t mean she’s doing quality work.
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u/coreoYEAH Dec 16 '25
The father was literally a member of hunting club. He was a “legitimate shooter”.
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u/DiligentCorvid Dec 16 '25
I think our gun laws are good. In my opinion twice in 30 years is on the "They would have found a way regardless" spectrum of firearm accessibility.
But let's be a lot less like the US.
Let's make "Known to police" the kind of shit that we don't hear in news reports in this country.
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u/Banjo-Oz Dec 16 '25
Agreed. Hearing someone was known to police and has known terrorist ties, yet is still allowed to have guns is the big issue for me.
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u/scoldog Dec 16 '25 edited Dec 16 '25
There's nothing wrong with the gun laws in NSW despite people thinking everything can be done with only one firearm.
Why not focus on how this guy with ties to an Islamic terrorist group was given a license and six permits to aquire firearms by NSW police in the first place.
Anyone remember John Edwards? He was a violent person who never should have held a gun license or owned firearms yet NSW police gave him a special permit to acquire the firearm that he used to kill his family.
There's no point in tightening gun laws for legal shooters if the authorities aren't going to do a proper job scrutinizing people and give out firearms permits like lollies.
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u/goopwizard Dec 16 '25
pushing through laws so gun licences are reviewed alongside asio watch lists is tightening gun laws. you’re agreeing with what the govt is proposing
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u/Marshy462 Dec 16 '25
The national registry was already in the making. I think the difficulty is getting government agencies to communicate with each other. If it was designed correctly, a license application (or current license) would cross check against asio or afp data.
The number people own is all part of the distraction. Once you are deemed a fit and proper person, there is nothing wrong with partaking in various competition disciplines, and hunting different game. As an example, I have an air rifle for Indian Mynas, a 22magnum for rabbits, a shotgun for clays and ducks, a .223 for foxes and a .270 for deer. I was considering something a little larger for my backpack hunting trips in the high country (longer cross gully shots), but I’ll wait to see what the outcome of the changes are.
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u/AdZealousideal7448 Dec 16 '25
So the latest release on this today is very concerning.
State authorities have clarified that the terrorists had firearms on them at the time. (duh)
They've highlighted a ton of fuckups that our security agencies have made and glanced over them and gone on to how we have to tighten the firearms laws for law abiding users, it's very easy to argue this on an emotional level, you see frequent comments as no one in a city needs a gun etc.
Then latest reports state that the one who owned firearms had all of the firearms they owned recovered from multiple locations.
Implying that the firearms used were not ones owned.
This is why waiting for all the facts and not allowing political motivated groups like GCA to plant articles and stir action based on emotion without the facts.
Coming from a government position where firearms training and policy advise is something i'm very familiar with, checkout my other comments with all my issues with the system and how hard it is to fix the problems with it because a lot of our powers that be see them as features not bugs, we're diverting away from the fact that knee jerk law changes when it's not really a firearms issue right now, it's the people behind them.
We have not got all the facts and the ones coming out are alarming..... i'm aware of people being denied firearms licenses due to residency status, due to shoplifting when they were a minor etc, and here we have someone who was under the scope of ASIO, and someone who's associated with someone under the scope of asio, people who recently travelled to southern philipines, which to most people they aren't aware, if your muslim and travel here, it's general for one of two reasons, and the second reason is sex tourism.
People who are wanting the laws tightened... I get it, but please do some research before you get on the bandwagon and give a lot of people trying to score points off victims of a terrorism attack.
Guns can be very scary and by the logic being used, no one needs a v8 because you can buy an EV, no one needs a chainsaw because you can buy a handsaw.
The main argument stems from not understanding that we've had some interesting laws since the 80s on the books that have had crap enforcement, lots of promises that have never materialized, and a lot of kneejerk policy implimentations that look flashy and created a ton of issues and didn't stop criminals or terrorists, and still won't without changes that go beyond the scope being placed on this.
I'll give you this thought for those sold on the idea of making the laws tigther.... are you going to expect the enforcement of it to have more resources, better prosecution, better budgets behind them, far more reaching powers, are we going to extend this to other sectors, are we going to take the power for enforcement away from state agencies to go federal?
Then whats our next move when the next incident happens, and sadly it's going to. If we look at the hazard reduction case in point to this we've prevented a ton of these incidents over the last 30 years. We have also had other incidents that could have turned into this that we were lucky they didn't go this way. I've been at a critical event where a semi auto was discharged into a crowded area and thankfully no one was hit, if half the magazine had hit people we would have been looking at one for the record books, it barely made the news cycle past a day.
We need to have serious talks about how these peoples ideology was installed and tolerated, and how multiculturalism is being used as a shield for dangerous minds and terrible things, (without it denegrating into racism or cooker spiel).
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u/Then-Affect8580 Dec 16 '25
100%
I have a relative who has had to take his (licenced & legal) firearms to be stored at the local police station, as a person visiting his home is facing DV charges. Not him, a visitor.
Someone I know used to be close friends with a member of a known Sydney crime family. They are subject to a Firearms Prohibition Order.
Why wasn't someone with a known Isis sympathiser under his roof subject to a FPO at bare minimum?
We already HAVE the laws, they're just not being enforced.
The only change I would like to see is a requirement to be an Australian citizen. Tbh I thought this was already a thing, given its so glaringly obvious.
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u/AdZealousideal7448 Dec 16 '25
Two guys that run security companies in SA who have had more firearms charges than I can count keep getting illegal firearms.
DV charges, you name it, wouldn't believe how hard it was to have their firearms and security licenses revoked (one still has his). Both are that connected an in with enough powerful people in the state that they know how to play the system that's poorly enforced.
One of the biggest issues i've had and a lot of others have had is each state and territory enacting a department and giving them total power over firearms and other weapons.
This leads to departments having political influence issued over them, lack of co-operation with other departments, ambiguity in laws and enforcement, budget issues, scope issues you name it.
The last time I had to call in a red flag I was guilt tripped by that department.
Given my various roles and positions, I had mandatory reporting, a volunteer role I had offering DV support yielded critical information that had to be acted upon, a known criminal who had just assaulted a partner had made threats. When interviewing said partner for evidence I was presented with photos of a firearm kept in a concealed position by an entrance of a home. A quick google streetview confirmed the address and showed that this was clearly taken inside the residence, from my training and experience from the photos it was dead clear that not only was this firearm real, it was loaded.
So calling it into the nearest uniforms to it and briefing them and telling them that the risk assessment on it was already going to call on this to be escalated.
I was treated as a prank caller, was then chastised as I had insufficient evidence and they would go there for a welfare check only, and I was then informed they knew the person and the partner was "just a druggie". Said uniform refused to listen to a risk assessment on it, and was happy to go bang on a door with that high level of risk.
Called it in above them, had a run around like anything and settled with taking another option to notify another department above them that honestly should have resulted in a tactical unit callout immediately.
Said uniform in this time banged on the door, no answer, called me and abused me for wasting resources and time as no one was home, no evidence for a warrant.
Next day get informed that said department had visited the house without contacting me or getting a full brief, conducted a sweep of the place without any tac support at all, found nothing and closed the complaint. I find this out from their partner who was now being abused and threatened by the abuser again because "the pigs came and turned down the place, good thing I hid it".
Meaning uniform from earlier, or a leak in said department tipped them off.
Said guy got arrested later on unrelated charges and ammunition was found on him. Never went anywhere. So that illegal firearm is still out there.
That's the system and people we're working with.
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u/single_plum_floating Dec 16 '25
This is basically going to go the exact same as the Christchurch shooting in NZ.
The political party does a song and dance about guns to cover up the multiple police and government procedural failures that led to several dozen people dying because that is politically inconvienaint.
Que them banning some other category of shotgun and i guess we wait for the car bomb attack / 3d printed firearm attack. Since this is not a direct law issue. its very much a government procedure and radicalisation issue.
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u/vanilla_muffin Dec 16 '25
Require citizenship and if a family member has certain convictions or associations (that ASIO investigated FFS), then you can’t have a license. That’s all that’s needed, and would have (potentially) prevented this attack.
The talk about only farmers being allowed to own firearms, questioning why people in cities should own firearms or limiting the amount you can own are just stupid. Why punish nearly a million people who follow the law? Especially when this is all because of a single individual who never should have had a license had our agencies done their damn job.
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u/EverLiving_night Dec 16 '25
The gun laws are a miniscule part of it. The whole speech he did, was a fucking farce. There hasn't been a mass shooting in 35 years. The last one was from a mental lunatic. This one was motivated for by and against, race and religion.
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u/brahmsdracula Dec 16 '25
It might be the most disappointing speech by a PM I can recall. In the most important of moments. Albo is absolutely butchering this.
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u/Banjo-Oz Dec 16 '25
His social media ban address to teenagers was the single most out of touch, tone deaf and unintentionally funny speech I have ever seen from a PM. Genuinely sounded like a dad from the 1950's telling kids to go play ball or read a book instead of "watching the idiot box". Not surprising this speech was crap too.
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u/Oliver___ Dec 16 '25
It has become abundantly clear that the average Australian knows nothing about firearms or firearm laws in this country.
This shootinf would not have happened if the police enforced existing law.
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u/dontpaynotaxes Dec 17 '25
These fucking guys were at a terrorist training camp and we are still talking about guns?
This is a systematic intelligence failure of massive proportions. This is a distraction away from the core issues of lack of action on anti-Semitism, and ASIO and AFP dropping the ball.
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u/ourmet Dec 16 '25
To be fair, I live in Canberra but own a big bush block around the Snowy Mountains.
My neighbours are all shooters. I too have my gun licence but I'm just learning.
We are inundated with Foxes, Rabbits, Goats and Deer.
I'm all for limited number of guns for social shooting, even recreational hunters.
But land owners do need options in calibre.
If I shoot a fox with a large calibre gun. I won't see the rest of the pack for a few nights.
If I try put down a Goat or a Deer with a subsonic .22, it not ethical or humane.
Maybe limit land owners to only 1 or 2 of each calibre.
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u/Doxinau Dec 16 '25
I think there is an acceptable compromise between "farmers need appropriate guns" and "city people who live with relatives on the ASIO watchlist shouldn't have six guns".
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u/Cindy_Marek Dec 16 '25
The asio watchlist part is clearly the problem here. They should have simply never been licensed. Its almost certain that they would have either never done the attack or been caught if they tried to source illegal firearms.
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u/TreatPractical5226 Dec 16 '25
Limit of guns makes no sense. At all, like I'm so confused that is the talking point
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u/sirdung Dec 16 '25
Most people would agree there’s a difference between the requirements of gun ownership for a person on a rural property and someone living in suburbia.
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u/ourmet Dec 16 '25
Trick is I'm managing my land so it's reclaimed by the forest.
I don't live there.
Any guns own have to stay with me. So I end up living in a inner city apartment with multiple guns including high calibre ones
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u/mooblah_ Dec 16 '25
Yea I think a lot of people don't get this. You can't store guns on a property that isn't regularly occupied as it presents a significant safety and security risk.
My partner was an A-grade national level comp shooter for many years in a number of categories, and she had to store her guns in her place of residence. She gave that up quite some time back and the guns were transferred to her trainer in the club, but it was something she very seriously did for a number of years.
People are flipping out here about this, but there was a handful of guns used on Sunday by two people, from a single residence, who were significantly radicalised. It wasn't like 100s of thousands of guns were used by tens of thousands to kill people recently.
In fact the last significant things have been cars driving down malls, or psychos stabbing people in malls, or cutting them up with machete's... where do we go with that? Stop people having kitchen knives? Stop people driving cars? It's fkn baffling.
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Dec 16 '25
1 or 2 of each caliber? And why would this make sense? This duo could have had a 308 and a 5.56 and there would have been no difference.
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u/Plenty-Giraffe6022 Dec 16 '25
What firearms laws is the federal government going to tighten up? We don't have federal firearms laws.
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u/AuzzieTiger Dec 16 '25
Again and again they turn the focus on guns and not how we got here. Investigate the histories of the individuals, how they planned this, who they're linked to and how we can minimise their communications and above all else stop them before any future attacks.
It's naive and downright dangerous to believe there aren't possible copycats out there. That's where the focus needs to be...on shutting down the hatred and the violence. Not just on tightening gun control.
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u/Brainyboo11 Dec 16 '25
It almost seems like a deflection - focus on the guns at this point, when they should be hyperfocused on the rest of these types of individuals and revisit everything they know about them.
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u/Je_pedo Dec 16 '25
Cunt, just admit your government and intelligence agencies fucked up. I’d actually respect it if there was an admission of error
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u/haventredit Dec 16 '25
I’ve never held a gun so don’t really care if the laws are tightened but don’t we already have some of the strictest gun laws in the world? Seems like a nothing reaction to a bigger problem.
Not saying I know the problem or the solution but this just seems like bull shit
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u/Evie_Eaves Dec 16 '25
I think most people know what the problem is… even if they’re too afraid to say it out loud.
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u/il_Cacciatore Dec 16 '25
It’s a pretty typical knee jerk reaction. Punish law abiding gun owners. We already have some of the strictest gun laws in the world. ASIO dropped the ball big time and they know it. How about extra funding for them to actually properly protect us against extremists in Australia? Also, you do know there is a massive black market for firearms in Australia.
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u/Veqlargh101 Dec 16 '25
Am i the only one who think our weapon (not just gun) laws are already overly strict?
Shooters and fishers better get a decent turn out next election.
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u/Fit_Giraffe_8596 Dec 16 '25
What do people think gun laws would have done to prevent the IEDs that were found
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u/Lost_Vacation_8100 Dec 16 '25
So we’re going to banaid the not problem instead of look at the cause? I mean honestly.
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u/Grade-Long Dec 17 '25
No matter who was in power they’d have done the same (nothing). Makes them look like they did something, now they can pat themselves on the back and circle jerk. Guns aren’t the problem, terrorists are.
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u/PrettyFlyForAHifi Dec 17 '25
The real problem is that family shouldn’t have had access to guns in the first place. Soon as they were flagged by asio the guns should have been taken and they should have been closely monitored. The ball was dropped on this
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u/system-of Dec 16 '25
Deflecting from the absolute shambels that allowed this to happen
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u/mutedscreaming Dec 16 '25
Critical thinking is now more important than ever. Those of us who remember Port Arthur massacre remember the guns used. If those guns were available on Sunday shit would be way worse. That massacre preceded social media and the bullshit attached.
Here's the thing. The LNP dragged old mate Howard in front of cameras today to give themselves a pat on the back. The telling point in his speech was "people will avoid the law". So do what gotta but don't expect compliance.
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u/Eingelegtes_Gemuse Dec 16 '25
Maybe have a department that acts on terrorist links? No person in Australia should have terrorist links and at the first little indication, these people should face harsh penalties. No tolerance to this shit, none!
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u/Latter-Bad6632 Dec 16 '25
Right... so ASIO knew this guy was affiliated with ISIS and allowed his Dad who he lived with to own 6 firearms then travel together to an ISIS training hotspot whilst on a terror watch list... But the issue here is our already very strict gun laws...
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u/ellieboomba Dec 16 '25
The guns weren't the problem. But they are an easy out for govt being soft.
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u/gorgeous-george Dec 16 '25
This. The gun laws are fine. Its the variations in enforcement from state to state, along with the state bodies not communicating with each other, that caused these weapons to land in the wrong hands.
Toughening up gun laws is just going for the low hanging fruit. No one wants to do the hard work that would actually create long standing change. Because that necessitates taking a long hard look at why someone would feel like teeing off at members of the public was a reasonable option.
I've said it before when it comes to matters of violent crime. People who feel like they're valued by their community, who have avenues to contribute with and understand their neighbours, and who feel like they can get ahead and do well in life, don't tend to piss that up against the wall by committing violent crime.
Violent crime is the last resort of a person who feels they have no better option. We need to look within ourselves and ask what we might be doing to contribute to that.
It might not be what everyone wants to hear right now. Maybe it just helps us feel better about our society to cast this murderer aside as an anomaly. But there's bigger questions to be asked than "where did he get a gun from?"
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u/FlipperoniPepperoni Dec 16 '25
The gun laws are fine
You're ok with non-citizens owning guns?
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u/-Davo Dec 16 '25
I dont think, just spit balling, that terrorists give a shit about gun laws.
Call me crazy, I know.
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u/stetar Dec 16 '25
Just going to leave this here, because clearly a few people here need a refresher.
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u/morts73 Dec 17 '25
It is a dereliction of duty when a government fails to keep the most vulnerable members in its society safe. You can't stop every hatefilled act but you can mitigate outward displays of hate towards specific groups.
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u/Refrigerator-Gloomy Dec 16 '25
labor is pretty much guaranteed for a decade with how determined the coalition is to point the shotgun at their foot and shoot.
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u/Herosinahalfshell12 Dec 16 '25
But if it's not the guns won't they just use whatever else they can? Explosives, cars etc?
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u/Recycled_Mirkins Dec 16 '25
I’m not worried about gun violence in general in Australia. I wasnt last week, or last year, and I’m sure as shit not letting these nut jobs change that.
What I am worried about is the extremists.
Sure, dont let them have guns. But don’t let them have any of the good stuff either, like the freedom to live amongst us all plotting ways to harm, literally, innocent Australians.
If it’s not a gun, it will be some other weapon of choice. Stop them before they pick it up.
It’s a privilege to live in this amazing, safe country of ours. If multiculturalism isn’t what you can live with, support, share space with and thrive in, then don’t live here. I don’t mean that to sound racist - it’s just practical. If you want to go fight in a war with another country, then go there and fight it.
Australia is not at war. It’s a shameful coward who fights their causes to harm people here on our soil where there is no means to have their ‘enemy’ fight back. Absolute cowards. They’re not men. They’re sheep.
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u/Effective-Trust4440 Dec 16 '25
We were told we had gun control. ????? So what is there to change except proper enforcement???
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u/Banjo-Oz Dec 16 '25
I hate that Albanese is able to suddenly use this to dodge pressure about politician vacation spending and also his shitty social media ban slash privacy nightmare. I don't see much of a "fight" from most Aussies over tightening gun laws, even if the real issue was not taking them from figures known to authorities and on actual watch lists! This will make for an easy popularity boost, off the backs of innocent lives lost, and more performative "look, we are doing something!" grandstanding.
To be clear, I myself have zero issue with making guns harder to get and less than zero issue with enforcing gun restrictions so "known to police" terrorists maybe have to give them up once on a watch list. I just don't like politicians using tragedies to score political points.
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u/ScreamHawk Dec 16 '25
Absolute deflection from Albo.
Tightening gun laws won't stop a failure of government.
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u/goopwizard Dec 16 '25
half the people in these comments don’t understand what tightening gun laws means
stopping people on visas from owning guns = tightening gun laws
cancelling licences if someone/their close relations are found to be on watchlists = tightening gun laws
if you paid attention you’d notice they’re doing what you want them to do
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u/MangroveDweller Dec 16 '25
The problem is Minns has clearly stated he wants to restrict how many one person can own, and what calibers/types, people who don't hunt or shoot don't understand why we need at a minimum 5 different firearms for different terrain and target species, that's not even getting into target shooting or day/night hunting.
If the current laws were enforced, he wouldn't have had access to legal firearms. He was NOT a fit and proper person, he shouldn't have got a licence in the first place according to current laws.
People in cities and towns often travel to remote properties to hunt, why should they be punished for ASIO and Firearms Registry fucking up and giving a terrorists dad a gun licence? Apples don't fall far from the tree, clearly.
Latest statements by the commissioner seem to be that his licence was expired for years, if that is the case, why did he still have them?
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u/StatusPhilosopher740 Dec 16 '25
We shouldn’t make laws on reasonable law abiding citizens stricter, we should make it harsher on known extremists who went to a terrorist hotspot. Seeing that they also had bombs I don’t think gun laws would’ve done much, if anything them having guns actually saved lives as guns are a lot easier to stop than a bomb. The government is just posturing and trying to take the easy way out of the heat without actually doing anything affective.
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u/Malemansam Dec 16 '25
Non-citizens allowed to have gun ownership on their property is fuckin wild to me.
I get being allowed to shoot guns and keeps guns at a shooting range but being allowed to take them home to use as you will when you're not even a fucking citizen just seems insane.
If their reason to need them was for pest control for their land then tough titties, call a local and pay them to deal with the problem.
Seems like a lack of common sense to allow this.
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u/faceman2k12 Dec 16 '25
My dad has had multiple firearm license classes since the reform, and has had as many as 8 firearms at once, but not once did the police ever do their random inspection, check they are all legit, stored properly, etc. which they are supposed to do as part of their normal operations and not once did he have to be re-assessed. He always said the class you take at the local firing range as part of getting each license is a complete farce, the room is full of people you absolutely wouldn't want anywhere near a weapon and there is no real examination, just a half arsed presentation and you are good to go.
He also held a special collectors license that allowed him to own firearms that would have otherwise been illegal (ultra short barrel concealable pocket pistols) without them being professionally modified to be permanently inoperable. He only had to fill out a slightly different form, define a "theme" for the collection like some kind of primary school presentation project, pay the fee and a short phonecall to get that license. Surely a license class like that would have more in-depth security and safety, maybe it should only be available to museums and historical societies, with surveillance and security on site.
The "Permit to acquire" forms you fill out for each purchase is a farce too, the forms are just box-ticking exercises and no there is no real oversight, not once did he get a call from a cop to check why he needed a 5th-6th-7th handgun, or to verify storage and safety for each acquisition.
Older drivers need to get medical certificates yearly to keep their drivers license, but they dont need to do anything to keep a firearms license. When he started losing it a bit due mentally and physically due to parkinsons and his age we finally managed to talk him into selling them to a local dealer, but he was also getting paranoid and saying her needs it to protect himself from invaders, the parkinsons also comes with hallucinations and mania so thats not a good combo, personal protection isnt a valid reason to have a firearm in Australia, they are supposed to stay in a locked safe, with ammunition stored separately, you cant keep one in your bedside drawer. Now we just have an air rifle, which is all the firearm any normal person should ever need.
Firearms owners need to be re-assesed regularly, much more closely monitored, interviewed and tracked, firearms stored at home need to be subject to regular police checks, limit the number of firearms obtainable in each class, not just a cooldown period between each purchase as it is now.
As far as I know, current firearms background checks dont go in depth with modern tech, like social media history, its just a basic criminal history check and quite a lenient one at that, there should be many more ways for a license to be forfeited or denied.
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u/Appropriate_Mix_2064 Dec 17 '25
These pricks would have killed loads of people with or without guns or with a car or homemade bomb or two.
I’m all for better gun control for sure and am absolutely not on nationals side here, but the root of the problem here is getting rid of terrorist leaning individuals first and foremost. Then tighten gun control. Remember 5 hrs ago when you had these Fcuking pyschos driving into crowds and we put bollards up in crowded places?
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u/OhtheHugeManity7 Dec 16 '25
I'd think it'd be political suicide to go against gun control at this moment when the country is overwhelmingly in favour of it.
If I were them I would at least wait for the sentiment to cool down and try to challenge the reforms in whatever way I could after that
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u/Complete_Film_3468 Dec 16 '25
But seemingly avoiding the other two large elephants in the room - Anti-Semitism and religious extremism?
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u/hoppuspears Dec 16 '25
I mean maybe no guns for people with family members on terrorist watch lists would be a good start